[Vengeance]

Nightmare is the mare that my uncle was given/‘rescued’ about two years ago or so... When he got her, she was skinny, wormy, her mane and tail completely matted, covered in rain-rot, and was (and still is) extremely distrustful. We rode her once, about a year/year and a half ago... not far, about a mile... she did fairly well. After that ride, she was put in a pasture with a two year old pony and both were left alone. Nightmare and the pony both became unmanageable and ‘wild’, though the pony will come up for pets and scratches, Nightmare will run from you unless you somehow manage to catch her with bread or feed.

About two months ago, my uncle gave Nightmare to his friend’s fifteen year old, extremely non-horsey son (though the boy, and his brothers and now his cousin want to learn and like coming out to the house to ride). I was asked to teach him/them about horses... how to ride/tack up/handle them... and also to help with Nightmare. Since then, we’ve caught her about three/four times...

She needs a lot of work... and since it’s not gonna happen the way we’ve been messing with her (catching her once a week, if that) I’ve decided that I’m going to try and get out to see her about three times a week and try to work with her more, because if she doesn’t calm down, someone’s probably gonna get hurt. Her new owner wants to ride her badly, but I’ve explained to him why that wouldn’t be a good idea right now and I think he understood... I found out when we got her out today that she’s mostly ok in her pasture with her pony herdmate/herd-leader... but as soon as we get through the gate, she turns into a nervous wreck like she’s terrified of ‘outside the pasture’. I worked on it with her, going through the gate and back... the first few times she rushed to get back in the pasture, but she eventually calmed down and walked through nicely with no rushing.

But she still needs a lot of work. It takes, on average, between twenty and forty-five minutes to catch her, then another twenty minutes to lead her across the pasture because she’s so nervous. She’s constantly ‘into’ you, bumping you, running against you... bu if you reprimand her too sharply, she freaks out. If you’re nervous, she’s a wreck... if you’re confidant and calm, she’s ok, but still nervous and anything can set her off.

I’m really not sure where to start with her, and sending her to a trainer isn't an option... she’s just so... wrecked. I have a feeling, too, that I’m going to be working with her pony herdmate as well, because the pony is always in the way and, if you’re not watching her, she’ll bite, kick, strike, rear, buck, and run at you like she’s going to run you over and then swerve at the last minute and take off bucking and kicking... and freak Nightmare out... causing her to take off too. I’m also unsure of where to start with her... (the pony’s name is Daydream, but that’ll also be changing soon, as she’s more of a demoness than a daydream...)

Any help? Ideas?

[Rosie12]

Depends on the horse, but simple basics. It's a little wierd to say this, but save the desensitizing until she trusts you a little better. Time, loving in the way she understands, and, if work is necisarry which it usually is, lunging is a good thing, IMO.

However, even tho I said that I would still hold off until she calms down a bit...gate work, being out and back and out and back of the pasture...Stuff like that.

[Vengeance]

Alright... so... maybe just catching and petting her in the pasture, feeding her, and brushing her... stuff like that, then... in order to teach her that it's not a bad thing to be caught???

[EVOO]

From the sounds and looks of thing, in the two years she's been there she hasn't been given any consistent reason to trust or value humans. One of the biggest fights with rescues is showing them that you are, in fact, going to make them feel better; that you are an asset to them not a hindrance.

Nightmare has been with your uncle for 2 years. She's still skinny (even if not as skinny as she was), she's still wormy, her feet are in need of care -- my guess is if the feet haven't been done neither have her teeth. She's been given no reason to value the humans around her.

Personally I would pull her from the pasture, put her in a smaller paddock away from the pony, I would go out there with her every single day at least one. To begin with I would bring food and do nothing else. Just sit and watch her eat. After a few days to a week of this I would halter her, pet her all over with your hands or a soft brush, give her a treat, unhalter her, feed her, leave. Repeat until you can groom her all over. Then proceed to leading her inside her paddock work on manners there. Once you can lead her inside her paddock without issue, take her outside the paddock. On and on...

You have to show Nightmare that people are of value. She needs to know that she can trust people to make her feel better, to have a full belly, to help her be able to walk comfortably, etc.

[Shikoika]

^ Agreed.

And yes, I would focus on gaining her trust INSIDE her comfort zone first. Love on her pet her, brush her, give her treats, and work on the groundwork inside the pasture once she's comfortable with being around humans. Once she's solid in the goundwork in the pasture, then move on, if you cant move her to another, small pn, or atleast, somewhere AWAY from the pony.

Making humans her only contact with living things will help her realize that humans take care of her and are lie herd memebers- but they are also the alpha of the herd.

[Vengeance]

We went out and brushed her today and led her down the road with the pony... as long as the pony went, she was perfect.

[Taxi Jumper]

Just curious. In the two years you have had her have her feet not been trimmed?

Honestly you are asking for a lawsuit giving non-horsey people a horse (beginners at best) then saying you are going to work with both of them when you are at a loss yourself. Nothing wrong with asking for advice, but throw in the extra people, and the wild biting kicking, heard leader pony and oi vey!

It just really sounds like a bad idea to me, and I wasn't going to post, but I could not in good conscious stay silent. I hope you have good liability insurance, if not it would be something to look into, at the very least some sort of release form!

Can you separate her from the pony? Some horses need to be alone, or else they get too attached. My horse is one of those, her name is Trouble, see a trend in names?

[Jenje!]

Originally Posted by Taxi Jumper

Just curious. In the two years you have had her have her feet not been trimmed?

Honestly you are asking for a lawsuit giving non-horsey people a horse (beginners at best) then saying you are going to work with both of them when you are at a loss yourself. Nothing wrong with asking for advice, but throw in the extra people, and the wild biting kicking, heard leader pony and oi vey!

It just really sounds like a bad idea to me, and I wasn't going to post, but I could not in good conscious stay silent. I hope you have good liability insurance, if not it would be something to look into, at the very least some sort of release form!

Can you separate her from the pony? Some horses need to be alone, or else they get too attached. My horse is one of those, her name is Trouble, see a trend in names?

Seconded, all the way down.

This horse appears to be too much for her new owner and too much for you. Have you considered seeking out a rescue that might be more experienced?

[Bluwind_Acres]

Ok so this got really long and I hope it came out how I wanted it to and please please be careful:

i didnt read what others posted but I have a simular situation by me . a lady came to me with her saddlebred gelding who is a wreck. here is what ive done...

now his pasture mate (the saddlebreds) who was like the pony you discribe, disrespectful and mean spirited, but instead of a pony he was a 16 hand branded mustang. Work with him FIRST. work on his respect. if they want to charge you carry an arm extender (whip) catch the pony on the shoulder or rump with the tip of the whip when he charges let him know that behavior is not allowed. they should respect your space.

if while leading he runs into you bump him with your elbow (I carry a bumper spur in my pocket, the ones that are rounded) and I start teaching to yield the hind end. be prepared some try to kick so stay close and repremand him even if its just yelling and a smack. after ward return to him and pet him and rub him. you want him to know his bad behavior isnt tollerated but when he's quiet youre quiet. a rope halter his highly recommended. do this in the same pasture as the mare. she will get used to you and noises and such. also by working him also may in her mind put you as 'leader' of the tandem. because at this point the pony is boss. you will have gained a little trust from the horse. not alot but enough to get her curiosity. next start taking him away to work with him and if you can have another remain behind to stand in the field with treats to provide if she investigates or approaches. i dont reccomend leaving halters on usually but see if you can find and old raggedy one that would break if caught on something or get a break away halter. but until she becomes easier to catch that would be a good idea. but remember to change the raggedy one/or break away for a strong one later. But use her confidence in that pony to bring her to you. work with the pony. you dont take a young horse on a trail ride by its self the first time...you take it with an experianced steady eddy. so work with the pony to make him into that steady eddy you can use later.

I dont care how jumpy she is respect first. now when repremanding a jumpy horse you may only need to give the horse a poke and a stern voice and that may be all they need. calmness takes time and in time you get trust you dont build it over night.

another thing someone should go out each day and provide even a small amount of grain start with just dumping it on the ground and standing near by and eventually begin petting or brushing her while she gobbles up the snack. this will build up her comfort zone.

I wouldnt take her out at all at first because you need to build her confidence then take her a little out of her comfort zone until she is comfortable with that and return to her previous comfort zone. its all about approach and retreat. scary objects you should make her face them, look at them until she gets up her courage to check the object out to sniff then walk on like its nothing. in the pen work on some lunging, picking up her feet. find maybe a piece of tarp to put on the ground. a plastic bag. any small thing to keep her mind working. because if you arent engaging her mind she will find things on her own to get scared at or think about. but for say the next month do everything in her pen. work on anything that could get a rise out of her. ground poles. lots of ground poles, raised ground poles set up a small in hand trail course have others work her in her pen. once she's comfortable there then you can start working her out of her pen because by the time you have her comfortable in her pen you should have a decent amount of her trust.

you as a person have to think like her. you have to think like a prey animal. if you know she's going to spook, which way is she going? do you stop her? no let her hit the end of the rope, to realize she cant go far and she wil also know the limits. then bring her to face the fear. a long 10 foot lead is your friend, with the real skittish ones I favor short lunge lines with those rubber stoppers on the end. you need to know how, when and where. if something is gonna scare her you should know if she's going to go up, run away, spin away, try to jump on top of you etc. watch her in the pasture. it may sound cruel but when she's in the pasture toss a tennis ball in, preferablly dont hit her. let it roll under her or past her. whats her reaction? after awhile of tossing the ball in she would react less and less. I used to jump and yell 'boo' and make a sudden jerk to startle the horse under controlled conditions. I'll tell you what, tons of people ask me why my horses dont flinch when something unexpected happens. its cause I've conditioned them, its like lunging a horse every day, why do you do that? to get thier muscles conditioned and the brain needs it too, it is a muscle after all.

the saddlebred I mentioned can now be led by any one, he's a breeze to catch, he bathes and is now being broke out. I do my quick jerk to scare him and other than lifting his head he rarely reacts, the owner thinks I switched horses on her. its not rocket science most of the little stuff in horse training is basiclly conditioning the animal for a specific responce. but take Your TIME. thats the biggest thing. you want to be sure the enviroment is controlled and dont be afraid to call up a local professional for help. most are more than willing to give advice.

and always reward for even the smallest accomplishment with a 'good girl' a good rub, a scratch in her favorite spot or a treat (dont reward with treats much or you may make her mouthy)

my colt, Ive said 'good boy' so many times when I say it he immediately stops and thinks he's done lol. its a little annoying but Ill tell you what he tries his hardest to get the vocal praise.

one last thing. always always always I dont care how small stop on a good note. if she flips out and go back to what she is comfortable with even if its just picking up her foot or getting her to move her hip over. you always want to stop at a good point or else they may link thier behavior to quitting and if they do they will do that behavior thinking they can do it every time to get you to leave. bad habits are harder to get rid of than starting from scratch so remeber stop on a good note and know her attention span because over taxing a nervous horse or over working them will make her harder tocatch so make it a good experiance and maybe end with a treat. let her go then offer another to invite her to stick around.


hopefully this will help. feel free to ask any questions.

[Bella]

This sounds like one of those situations you just don't want to be involved in. Helping a non-horsey kid, with a 'wild' horse is just asking for trouble. Get out of there, before something happens and the blame gets pinned on you. Simple solution.

-Bella