[cutter123]

One thing about those aussie stockmen...
they come over to the USA and become cutting horse trainers and put all the Texans out of business because they start winning everything in sight.
the picture above tells why...they ride with their legs underneath them from what I've seen. The slouch in the back is essential for working cattle. Number one...they are comfortable on their horse.
It probably wouldn't work for dressage tho.
The seat you adopt depends on what you are asking your horse to do. But like JBand Rio said, a good seat is an effective seat, a soft supple seat, a balanced seat, a seat that not only doesn't interfere with free relaxed movement in your horse, but also can enhance that movement. A rider with a good seat can have independent hands and communicate with his horse with a minimum of effort, and so it looks like he is doing less and getting more.

My trainer harps on proper position for me all the time, he will let me know if my leg shifts or my heels come up a tad, or my hand isn't perfect, etc. I notice sometimes his eq isn't perfect, his legs go in front of him when he lopes, etc. However, the essential thing...he has a soft back, he is completely balanced and with his horse at all times, and he has enough FEEL to get away with little flaws in his position from time to time. This is because he has been training and winning world championships for about 35 years, and riding his whole life before that. For me, I have to concentrate on all the fundamentals on a good position until it is so ingrained that I can become completely one with my horse all the time. Then, perhaps someday when I am 59 and have a couple of major world championships under my belt too, I can let my legs go in front of me a bit when I lope

I think some people get a proper position confused with being in a "pose" however, and they will be stiff trying to adopt a pose. Like the broomstick thing you said. Personally, I would rather see someone concentrate a little more on being relaxed and flowing with their horse even if they aren't in a picture perfect pose. As they become more able to move with their horse and maintain a supple back, etc, then they can work on a "posture" on a horse.

[christinap]

I grew up on a race horse farm, did very little showing as a kid. But after breaking and training horses for years I developed a chair seat. To me is was about staying on horses who would buck and not flopping around in the saddle. I've always been complatmented on how smooth I look riding , But It was not until I started showing again a few years ago that I relized I had a chair seat.
I've been working on my position but retraining yourself after 20 + years of riding is tough. Putting showing aside I personaly think a bit of a chair seat is safer for the rider and your main goal should be to ride smooth transitions and you should flow with the horses movement.

[Kicks]

Originally Posted by AtomicTop

Yes, that makes sense. I guess you wouldn't ride a stockman's seat when you're dressed in hack costume as you wouldn't have an english seat rounding up cattle. lol And in some way your clothes impact on your seat. I'm just a trail rider but when I'm in the mood for my knee high polished boots on top of my jodhpurs, I ride straight and tall. When I wear my jeans with the old scruffy boots, I slouch and use one hand on the reins high up.

I've 'worked'/'rounded up' cattle MANY times in my 'flat saddles' (both Lane Fox and CC) When I was a kid Daddy and Nandad ran cattle as did most of my friends' parents/grandparents and everybody helped everybody else. To this day, I've never owned a stock saddle in my life - only Lane Fox, CC and Dressage saddles - so when I had to help I had to ride my own saddle - never had a problem working the cattle - IF I knew Ihad to rope then I used an old McLelland that had a brass horn or borrowed a roper. I've pulled pack strings up and down the northern Cascades in my CC.

[shyxpony]

Haven't read through all the posts yet... but to answer the original question: if you are a beginning rider, I would say work on getting down the 'perfect' equitation first. The harmony with your horse will fall into place as you become a better rider, and you can let your seat go a bit and just relax.

That said, 'perfect' equitation is not stiffness and tenseness. If you are stiff and tense, you do not have perfect equitation. 'Perfect' equitation is when you are sitting in a way that allows you and your horse to perform at your greatest. The general guidelines (heels down, looking ahead, line from the bit to your elbow, etc. etc.) are simply that - general guidelines. They were made for a reason though, and that reason is that they are generally what works best for people and can generally allow you and your horse to work together best. If you're slouchy and looking down and have your legs flopping all over, you are not helping your horse to perform to the best of his ability - he won't be sure exactly what you are wanting him to do. There are equitation 'guidelines' because having good equitation can generally allow you to communicate better with your horse. They also allow for horse shows and such - there has to be some sort of standard way of riding.

Not sure if that all made sense haha! But... just my two cents.

[gaelinsgirl]

I can identify with this issue. I have been riding for around 15 years and have managed to develop an independant seat and am able to stick out just about anything, but recently I started riding at a riding school and I feel so rough! What is comfortable and balanced for me must look terrible to a more experienced instructor! I have the opportunity to go an ride at a school with a very experienced dressage trainer and her flash warmbloods but I am too scared because of what she'll think of my style! Isn't that stupid!

[AtomicTop]

Originally Posted by cutter123

I think some people get a proper position confused with being in a "pose" however, and they will be stiff trying to adopt a pose. Like the broomstick thing you said. Personally, I would rather see someone concentrate a little more on being relaxed and flowing with their horse even if they aren't in a picture perfect pose. As they become more able to move with their horse and maintain a supple back, etc, then they can work on a "posture" on a horse.

Yes, I'd agree with that!

[IIIBarsV]

Agree with everything JB and Cutter said.

Also, to clarify....

You won't catch me riding short-stirrup hunter style in my barrel saddle. Nor will you catch me trying to jump with barrel length stirrups and body position. Barrel racing with short stirrups and a forward position is dangerous and ineffective. Jumping with long stirrups and a swung back position just doesn't work either. Different things call for different body positions...

The underlying basics of achieving these different seats are the same. Moving with the horse, independant body sections, etc.

The saddle makes a big difference. I have seen some english saddles put their riders into a western position and they usually end up with swinging legs and horrible balance. The saddle is not supporting them. I have also seen western saddles that do the same, not supporting the rider's position. A saddle that doesn't fit you or the horse will wreck your positions pretty quick.

My favourite saddle is the Wintec Close Contact with changeable gullet/CAIR. I can do just about anything in that saddle. Hunter, Dressage, western pleasure, even barrel racing (no faster than a hand gallop, but still), even polebending. That is one heck of a versatile saddle. The reason it works so well is that it supports proper body position. You can put your legs anywhere you like, you can move with the horse easily, and nothing is getting in your way. It allows your legs to hang easy without interference, it provides some level of grip, and is very balanced on the horse.

My barrel saddle allows me to do things at high speed easily, with lots of grip and a horn for security. The seat is well balanced for a supportive but not controlling position to the rider. But I can't post-trot in it to save my life.

Here's a video of me riding in the barrel saddle (through a polebending class on Wisher, my young horse). Can you put a label to the position I'm in? (Ps: Who said barefoot horses can't run?)

YouTube - Wisher Poles Macks

[AtomicTop]

Originally Posted by IIIBarsV

Agree with everything JB and Cutter said.

Also, to clarify....

You won't catch me riding short-stirrup hunter style in my barrel saddle. Nor will you catch me trying to jump with barrel length stirrups and body position. Barrel racing with short stirrups and a forward position is dangerous and ineffective. Jumping with long stirrups and a swung back position just doesn't work either. Different things call for different body positions...

The underlying basics of achieving these different seats are the same. Moving with the horse, independant body sections, etc.

The saddle makes a big difference. I have seen some english saddles put their riders into a western position and they usually end up with swinging legs and horrible balance. The saddle is not supporting them. I have also seen western saddles that do the same, not supporting the rider's position. A saddle that doesn't fit you or the horse will wreck your positions pretty quick.

My favourite saddle is the Wintec Close Contact with changeable gullet/CAIR. I can do just about anything in that saddle. Hunter, Dressage, western pleasure, even barrel racing (no faster than a hand gallop, but still), even polebending. That is one heck of a versatile saddle. The reason it works so well is that it supports proper body position. You can put your legs anywhere you like, you can move with the horse easily, and nothing is getting in your way. It allows your legs to hang easy without interference, it provides some level of grip, and is very balanced on the horse.

My barrel saddle allows me to do things at high speed easily, with lots of grip and a horn for security. The seat is well balanced for a supportive but not controlling position to the rider. But I can't post-trot in it to save my life.

Here's a video of me riding in the barrel saddle (through a polebending class on Wisher, my young horse). Can you put a label to the position I'm in? (Ps: Who said barefoot horses can't run?)

Nice video, IIIBarsV! I cannot comment on your seat, as I am no expert but still learning, however you do look great riding. Your video brings back fond memories from when I used to take lessons. We did a lot of barrel racing and it was soooooooo much fun.

[Tallpine]

It's all in the hat, mate. If you have the right hat, then you can be a good rider

Seriously, if you look at old Charlie Russell paintings, you will see that the old cowboys practically stood astride their horses (legs back and down). And I don't think CMR painted his riders to look like fancy equestrians. He painted what he saw.

[cutter123]

not the hat.... the boots. its all the boots.
hehehehe!

here's that "stockmens seat" in action:
the slouchy back absorbs the big moves so the rider doesnt' get whiplashed around. a good seat on a cutting horse ensures you sit in the center and let the horse make the move.

YouTube - Jessie & Stylish