What was she doing...?!

SpiritSaddle · 05-12-2008, 07:45 PM

Okay so I went to my friends barn to help her load her horses up today and I saw some lady working her horse in the arena with reins from the halter, down inbetween the horses from legs and up around his back. She was making him trot over some poles like that. I don't know if I've ever seen that. What was she doing? And what is it used for?

cutter123 · 05-12-2008, 07:54 PM

sounds like some insane way to "create headset."
ive seen this done w/ a snaffle bit. called an elbow pull. basically the movement of the horses front legs give a see sawing type action to encourage the horse to lower his head and "come off" the bridle.
personally, i can think of several much better ways to get a horse soft in the face. i personally would not use this type of "bitting up."

TrailBlazer · 05-12-2008, 08:24 PM

As cutter123 said. It is for head carrage (to lower the head). I personally do not like this method either.

Jess! · 05-12-2008, 08:25 PM

I've seen it done that way, and also just with reins tied to stirrups [if they're tacked up].

SpiritSaddle · 05-13-2008, 04:53 PM

Hmm that's really weird, but I guess it makes sense. How come you guys don't like it? Not enough give?

Klaycock · 05-13-2008, 05:11 PM

I seen someone post for a critique on dreamhorse that was a pic of their paint filly lungin in this same manner. The biggest problem I've seen, since Ive never tried it, is the horse may learn to drop their head but the become lighter in the rear so all in all theyve not really accomplished much since you want your horse to use their back end not drag it along.

Lindsayanne · 05-13-2008, 05:20 PM

Actually, this method has kind of been "going around" my barn.

We ride with a very strict, very german dressage instructor. When she heard about it she just about had a fit and started raving about how it was just going to pull the head down, put them on the forehand, etc, etc. Then she saw a horse working that way, and they tried it on another, and another- and she was really impressed at how it was actually helping horses step under and lift their shoulders correctly while working with a correct, not exaggerated headset. She was sold on the technique- and if that gadget nazi is sold, so am I.

As with anything, I'm sure, moderation, adjustment of tension, and handler competency play a huge part in effectiveness.

doublebarr · 05-13-2008, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpiritSaddle

Okay so I went to my friends barn to help her load her horses up today and I saw some lady working her horse in the arena with reins from the halter, down inbetween the horses from legs and up around his back. She was making him trot over some poles like that. I don't know if I've ever seen that. What was she doing? And what is it used for?

I had to read that a few times, but notice it says "HALTER" not bridle. This is VERY interesting to me. I can see where it could be worth researching because you are NOT in the horses mouth but are allowing it to "fight itself" without the pressure in the mouth and let them figure out self carriage with a "relaxed neck/head". Interesting.

IIIBarsV · 05-14-2008, 07:12 AM

I still don't like the idea of forced "anything".

*cough* Learn to train! *cough* don't let the ropes do it for you! *coughcough....*

Gosh, this cold of mine... just won't go away!

cutter123 · 05-14-2008, 08:28 AM

i saw the halter bit too i suppose she thought it was better since she was staying out of his mouth but the see saw action was still there on his face

anyway, in my opinion, bitting a horse up has its place. ive used side reins before, and have bitted them to the side, and used another method where i go from the dee ring on the cinch (between the legs) up thru one ring of the snaffle, over the poll, down thru the other ring of the snaffle, back to itself.

the thing about bitting up is it needs to be done by someone with some savvy, and it is easy to overdo it. ive used it not to create headset but to help bracy stiff horses learn how to give. again this has to be done carefully, in conjuntion with good riding practices. its something to be dusted off, used sparingly, then put back on the tackroom shelf if u see what i mean.

the reason i am not a fan of the elbow pull method is the see sawing action it creates. also it encourages a horse to put his head into a western pleasure type headset, which is too low for what i do with horses. also, the incessant bumping action can encourage a horse to go overbridled and drop behind the bit. i have seen it used to create headset and nothing more, with the expected results, a low headed overbridled horse with the hind end strung out behind him.

the lady was lunging her horse over poles, so my guess is she was at least getting her horse to lift himself and go forward while bitted up. so she was probably utilising the method in a more effective way than some would. i wouldnt be too quick to judge her even tho she was doing something i wouldnt personally do.

05-12-2008, 07:45 PM	#1
SpiritSaddle Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Oregon Posts: 1,175 Images: 102	What was she doing...?! Okay so I went to my friends barn to help her load her horses up today and I saw some lady working her horse in the arena with reins from the halter, down inbetween the horses from legs and up around his back. She was making him trot over some poles like that. I don't know if I've ever seen that. What was she doing? And what is it used for? __________________ ~Angelika

05-12-2008, 08:24 PM	#3
TrailBlazer Senior Member+ Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Manitoba, Canada Posts: 1,176	As cutter123 said. It is for head carrage (to lower the head). I personally do not like this method either. __________________ All I pay my psychiatrist is cost of feed and hay, and She'll listen to me any day!

05-12-2008, 08:25 PM	#4
Jess! Senior Member+ Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: SoCal Posts: 11,327 Images: 76	I've seen it done that way, and also just with reins tied to stirrups [if they're tacked up]. __________________ (¯`·._¤ Jess!·._¤ ´¯) ♥ Haute Couture Arabians♥ Purebred and Half Arabian Endurance Horses

05-13-2008, 04:53 PM	#5
SpiritSaddle Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Oregon Posts: 1,175 Images: 102	Hmm that's really weird, but I guess it makes sense. How come you guys don't like it? Not enough give? __________________ ~Angelika

05-13-2008, 05:11 PM	#6
Klaycock Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: LeRoy, Michigan Posts: 1,423 Images: 286	I seen someone post for a critique on dreamhorse that was a pic of their paint filly lungin in this same manner. The biggest problem I've seen, since Ive never tried it, is the horse may learn to drop their head but the become lighter in the rear so all in all theyve not really accomplished much since you want your horse to use their back end not drag it along. __________________ K&M Speed and Miniature Horses Training,Sales,Showing,Lessons Located In LeRoy, MI 49655

05-12-2008, 07:54 PM	#2
cutter123 Senior Member+ Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: California Posts: 660 Images: 9 Blog Entries: 10	sounds like some insane way to "create headset." ive seen this done w/ a snaffle bit. called an elbow pull. basically the movement of the horses front legs give a see sawing type action to encourage the horse to lower his head and "come off" the bridle. personally, i can think of several much better ways to get a horse soft in the face. i personally would not use this type of "bitting up."

05-13-2008, 05:20 PM	#7
Lindsayanne Senior Member+ Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Joplin, MO Posts: 10,550 Images: 465	Actually, this method has kind of been "going around" my barn. We ride with a very strict, very german dressage instructor. When she heard about it she just about had a fit and started raving about how it was just going to pull the head down, put them on the forehand, etc, etc. Then she saw a horse working that way, and they tried it on another, and another- and she was really impressed at how it was actually helping horses step under and lift their shoulders correctly while working with a correct, not exaggerated headset. She was sold on the technique- and if that gadget nazi is sold, so am I. As with anything, I'm sure, moderation, adjustment of tension, and handler competency play a huge part in effectiveness. __________________ Bashkir Curly Poster Child *NE Prime Time Regal - 2006 ABCR National Champion & 2008 Breyerfest Demo Horse

05-14-2008, 07:12 AM	#9
IIIBarsV Senior Member+ Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Eastern Ontario, Canada Posts: 3,376 Images: 27	I still don't like the idea of forced "anything". cough Learn to train! cough don't let the ropes do it for you! coughcough.... Gosh, this cold of mine... just won't go away! __________________ Three Bars The Fifth Jags Fleeting Rocket Wish I'd Get Lucky Chipped In Stone Zip Code Bay B Suns Eternal Flame

05-14-2008, 08:28 AM	#10
cutter123 Senior Member+ Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: California Posts: 660 Images: 9 Blog Entries: 10	i saw the halter bit too i suppose she thought it was better since she was staying out of his mouth but the see saw action was still there on his face anyway, in my opinion, bitting a horse up has its place. ive used side reins before, and have bitted them to the side, and used another method where i go from the dee ring on the cinch (between the legs) up thru one ring of the snaffle, over the poll, down thru the other ring of the snaffle, back to itself. the thing about bitting up is it needs to be done by someone with some savvy, and it is easy to overdo it. ive used it not to create headset but to help bracy stiff horses learn how to give. again this has to be done carefully, in conjuntion with good riding practices. its something to be dusted off, used sparingly, then put back on the tackroom shelf if u see what i mean. the reason i am not a fan of the elbow pull method is the see sawing action it creates. also it encourages a horse to put his head into a western pleasure type headset, which is too low for what i do with horses. also, the incessant bumping action can encourage a horse to go overbridled and drop behind the bit. i have seen it used to create headset and nothing more, with the expected results, a low headed overbridled horse with the hind end strung out behind him. the lady was lunging her horse over poles, so my guess is she was at least getting her horse to lift himself and go forward while bitted up. so she was probably utilising the method in a more effective way than some would. i wouldnt be too quick to judge her even tho she was doing something i wouldnt personally do.