What kind of worms are these

Dawn · 01-31-2008, 09:14 AM

How large is this horse? The weight you listed would be quite a small horse. Not saying she's not. I was just under the impression (for some reason) that this was a full sized horse and not a pony.

TraceyT · 01-31-2008, 09:22 AM

I brought her home in September(early) and dewormed her with exodus in the beginning of Oct, after getting a fecal done and tapeworms were present, then when she still had the runs at the end of Oct the vet said try Stongid P, no change. So since September she has been wormed 3x with different wormers. She has had three fecals done, one September, the next was mid Nov and then the following was beginning of Jan. The last 2 came back parasite free.

Dawn · 01-31-2008, 09:25 AM

So...(just getting this straight in my head).

The November fecal was after the Strongid P, before the Quest.

The January fecal was just after the Quest?

Approximately one month passed between the November fecal and the time you dewormed with Quest. Approximately one week passed between the time you dewormed with Quest and the time you ran the Jan fecal.

TraceyT · 01-31-2008, 09:30 AM

No, she is a yearling (2 in April) she has been under major digestive stress since last Nov06 (yep Nov 06!!) with the runs. She is finally coming back but she has a long way to go. She is still quite tall standing at 14.3-15hh but her body score would be at a 2 or less(right now she looks like a donkey with her massive winter coat)

TraceyT · 01-31-2008, 09:33 AM

yes to all. Alot of worming on the poor girl. Vet thought maybe the exodus did not get all the tapeworms so reccomended the StongidP. Then I was told that Quest Plus should be used not StongidP.

Dawn · 01-31-2008, 09:36 AM

Well, since StrondidP (unless double dosed) does not affect tapeworms, I can not imagine why your vet would have recommended it? And even still, it is the same chemical class as Exodus, and was a lesson in futility at best.

Double doses of pyrantels do not kill as many stages of tapeworms as praziquantel does, and are (in general) not really that great of a treatment.

Ryle · 01-31-2008, 09:49 AM

Ok, Tracy forgive me but I'm sick and having a bit of trouble laying out the timeline in my head. Could you write out what was done and when in sequential order?

Ryle · 01-31-2008, 10:12 AM

Double dose pyrantel is as effective as praziquantel, so either the Exodus 2X or the Quest Plus should have cleared the tapeworm infection. But tapeworms generally don't cause diarrhea--the risk with them is impaction due to where they gather.

The problem is that you used pyrantel and pyrantel and this drug has a moderate risk of not being effective against strongyles. So when you got around to the Quest Plus (and depending on what kind of deworming history she had prior to you getting her) there could have been a pretty good strongyle infection and lots of encysted strongyles. Moxidectin kills all but 1 larval stage of encysted strongyles as well as adult and migrating larval stages, so it is possible to have adult strongyles already if you had some encysted strongyles. Though it is also possible that you are simply seeing dead strongyles finally passing out of the GI tract.

I would have a fecal run right now just to see if you are having any egg-shedding.

Oh yeah, weight tapes aren't as accurate for yearlings so you would be better off measuring her heart girth and lenght and then doing the calculations to estimate her weight.

TraceyT · 01-31-2008, 11:42 AM

Hi Ryle (get better soon)

As a weanling she was found to have had Lawsonia and also roundworms. She was treated for both but never really became normal in her stools
In September I brought her home and after making sure that the runs were not caused by stress a fecal was done. Tapeworms were found and she was doesed with Exodus2x in October. Nothing changed. So stongidP was used and I did 2X it. Nothing changed. Vet then came and did blood work, another fecal and also urine test. Fecal normal but blood came back that she was a little dehydrated. Urine normal. This was done in Nov.

Quest plus was used in Dec and the fecal was redone and then a new vet did blood work again , checked for Lawsonia again and did a test for insulin (cushings)
Blood work came back great, she wasn't even dehydrated at this point, beginning of Jan.

Yesterday, found small red worms in her stool.
So with all the deworming for Tapes I guess the small strongyles were missed and they never turned up in the 3 fecals in 4 months. Boy can they hide well!!!!!!!

01-31-2008, 09:49 AM	#27
Ryle Senior Member+ Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 2,924 Images: 1	Ok, Tracy forgive me but I'm sick and having a bit of trouble laying out the timeline in my head. Could you write out what was done and when in sequential order? __________________ Cindy D. Registered Veterinary Technician Member American Assoc. of Equine Veterinary Technicians

01-31-2008, 10:12 AM	#28
Ryle Senior Member+ Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 2,924 Images: 1	Double dose pyrantel is as effective as praziquantel, so either the Exodus 2X or the Quest Plus should have cleared the tapeworm infection. But tapeworms generally don't cause diarrhea--the risk with them is impaction due to where they gather. The problem is that you used pyrantel and pyrantel and this drug has a moderate risk of not being effective against strongyles. So when you got around to the Quest Plus (and depending on what kind of deworming history she had prior to you getting her) there could have been a pretty good strongyle infection and lots of encysted strongyles. Moxidectin kills all but 1 larval stage of encysted strongyles as well as adult and migrating larval stages, so it is possible to have adult strongyles already if you had some encysted strongyles. Though it is also possible that you are simply seeing dead strongyles finally passing out of the GI tract. I would have a fecal run right now just to see if you are having any egg-shedding. Oh yeah, weight tapes aren't as accurate for yearlings so you would be better off measuring her heart girth and lenght and then doing the calculations to estimate her weight. __________________ Cindy D. Registered Veterinary Technician Member American Assoc. of Equine Veterinary Technicians

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01-31-2008, 09:14 AM	#21
Dawn Senior Member+ Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Tennessee Posts: 31,484 Images: 1390	How large is this horse? The weight you listed would be quite a small horse. Not saying she's not. I was just under the impression (for some reason) that this was a full sized horse and not a pony.

01-31-2008, 09:22 AM	#22
TraceyT Full Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 61 Images: 3	I brought her home in September(early) and dewormed her with exodus in the beginning of Oct, after getting a fecal done and tapeworms were present, then when she still had the runs at the end of Oct the vet said try Stongid P, no change. So since September she has been wormed 3x with different wormers. She has had three fecals done, one September, the next was mid Nov and then the following was beginning of Jan. The last 2 came back parasite free.

01-31-2008, 09:25 AM	#23
Dawn Senior Member+ Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Tennessee Posts: 31,484 Images: 1390	So...(just getting this straight in my head). The November fecal was after the Strongid P, before the Quest. The January fecal was just after the Quest? Approximately one month passed between the November fecal and the time you dewormed with Quest. Approximately one week passed between the time you dewormed with Quest and the time you ran the Jan fecal.

01-31-2008, 09:30 AM	#24
TraceyT Full Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 61 Images: 3	No, she is a yearling (2 in April) she has been under major digestive stress since last Nov06 (yep Nov 06!!) with the runs. She is finally coming back but she has a long way to go. She is still quite tall standing at 14.3-15hh but her body score would be at a 2 or less(right now she looks like a donkey with her massive winter coat)

01-31-2008, 09:33 AM	#25
TraceyT Full Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 61 Images: 3	yes to all. Alot of worming on the poor girl. Vet thought maybe the exodus did not get all the tapeworms so reccomended the StongidP. Then I was told that Quest Plus should be used not StongidP.

01-31-2008, 09:36 AM	#26
Dawn Senior Member+ Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Tennessee Posts: 31,484 Images: 1390	Well, since StrondidP (unless double dosed) does not affect tapeworms, I can not imagine why your vet would have recommended it? And even still, it is the same chemical class as Exodus, and was a lesson in futility at best. Double doses of pyrantels do not kill as many stages of tapeworms as praziquantel does, and are (in general) not really that great of a treatment.

01-31-2008, 11:42 AM	#29
TraceyT Full Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 61 Images: 3	Hi Ryle (get better soon) As a weanling she was found to have had Lawsonia and also roundworms. She was treated for both but never really became normal in her stools In September I brought her home and after making sure that the runs were not caused by stress a fecal was done. Tapeworms were found and she was doesed with Exodus2x in October. Nothing changed. So stongidP was used and I did 2X it. Nothing changed. Vet then came and did blood work, another fecal and also urine test. Fecal normal but blood came back that she was a little dehydrated. Urine normal. This was done in Nov. Quest plus was used in Dec and the fecal was redone and then a new vet did blood work again , checked for Lawsonia again and did a test for insulin (cushings) Blood work came back great, she wasn't even dehydrated at this point, beginning of Jan. Yesterday, found small red worms in her stool. So with all the deworming for Tapes I guess the small strongyles were missed and they never turned up in the 3 fecals in 4 months. Boy can they hide well!!!!!!!