[Blistering Winds]

that is totally different than what you are describing.

Azoturia is due to tying up syndrome. Caused by seizure disorders, HYPP, or the "mystery reason" for horses to tye up.

Does your horse tye up at all?

Get stiff for unknown reasons??

If your vet diagnosed that off the urine, the urine DID show something and was NOT normal!!


Read this, does your horse exhibit any of it?

http://www.equinehospital.net/azoturia.htm

[Classical_Dream]

Hey, Sorry to hear bout your filly.

I would try giving her loads of vitamins and minerals. Even if it doesnt cure the problem, it wouldnt hurt and would help with her overall health. I feed my horses calcium, seaweed mill and a mineral base. All i do is mix it in their feed with some water and they scoff it down. Although they might take a while to adjust the first couple of times.

Anyway.. i find that the vitamins and minerals really help with all sorts of problems. They will help the body to recover and produce the things needed for healing.

As for having antibiotics as a 6 month old.. this could have produced the problem. I have heard that antibiotics seriously mess with the stomach - especially at such a young age. It may have destroyed the stomach acid or damaged something. In this case, vitamins and minerals would surely help!

I really hope this informations helps!! Best of luck! =)

[TraceyT]

no the vet did not say anything about the urine sample except that it was clear. I just read up on the thick urine and something was said about "black water" No she never ties up, nothing at all. I have completely healthy horses that tend to get into more trouble than this one with lameness issues, cuts and mysterious things that only horses seem to get.

Only thing that came up in one of the test was that she was a little weak in one muscle and the vet asked if she layed down lots, no she doesn't do that either.

I have her on Vitamins which also contain Yea Sacc. This poor girl has so much good stuff going into her at the moment that I guess she can't help but feel better but just not get better.

[WildHorseSpirit]

I know $$$ is a factor but this horse needs seen by a specialist NOW not later in the week, whatever is causing this sounds really life threatening to me.

I did not have the nearly 8 grand I have put into our mare but she was so worth it and I had wonderful vets and a great farrier who helped price wise and payment wise. Today she is doing really well and expected to have a life now. There is a way you just have to look.

[IIIBarsV]

You're describing a 12 yr old AQHA mare that has had the exact same symptoms for over 5 years. Chronic diarrhea, excessive water consumption, weight loss, negative fecal tests, but still eats and doesn't have the eyes of a sick horse.

We had no less than six vets out to see this mare, been in contact with others from across the continent. We tried every treatment available for ulcers (she was a show horse who'd been in heavy competition, but still led a normal lifestyle), changed her diet, tried various supplements and holistic, naturopath medicine. The only things that seemed to bring any improvement were deworming, slippery elm bark powder, and Chaste Tree Berry.

She also was prone to laminitis and always grew a large shaggy hair coat that was slow to shed. We've owned her since she was a 2 yr old and she's always been "off".

Finally the symptoms collected to paint a clear picture of Cushings Disease. The Chaste Tree Berry has definitely helped with the moderation of the symptoms, or at least, all except one- the excessive drinking end of it, also known as "polydipsia". The diarrhea also persisted, and the mare, who had always been the biggest horse in the barn (though not the tallest), dropped down to a body condition of about "1" out of 10.

This past November, when she was really on a downward slide and the topic of finally putting this fighter down was coming up, I decided to re-evaluate the whole situation. The turning point came when I found a dead 12-inch long ascarid in her stall (long, whiteish parasite also known as a roundworm... it's about as big around as a pencil) a couple days after she was wormed with Zimectrin Gold. This was unusual because older horses having this type of worm in them is almost unheard of.

So we dewormed her once a day for 5 days with Fenbendazole (Panacur), then put her onto a daily dewormer. In the first three days of this treatment, she began drinking less and her manure gained some consistency and showed signs of digestion. On the fourth and fifth days, it came back heavily, but in the following week, she was having some of the first semi-digested poops we'd seen in years.

But something still wasn't right. She continued to drink roughly 8-10 buckets of water a day, and the diarrhea hadn't completed disappeared as I'd been hoping. So I took a step back and re-evaluated again.

I came up with this hypothesis after looking more into Cushings Disease. "Polydispia (excessive drinking)- could this be causing the diarrhea? Could she be drinking so much water that diarrhea is the only way her body can get rid of the excess water?"

Very cautiously, we began to slowly limit her water intake to that of a normal horse. Unfortunately we have an automatic outside, so we could only do this in the stall.

Within 24 hours we saw manure that was no longer sloppy, but forming properly. Within a week, the pattern of formed manure versus diarrhea was becoming clear. She'd have formed manure in the stall, but the diarrhea would reappear after she'd been outside with unlimited access to the automatic waterer. Now, a month later, the horse is up to a 2 1/2 on the body condition scale, has tons of energy, and the diarrhea only shows up when she's had excessive amounts of water.

I've been documenting this every step of the way with pictures, detailed notes and descriptions, picture comparisons. After 5 years, thousands of dollars and numerous vets and hundreds of opinions, the horse is finally recovering fantastically- though, she will have to be carefully and consistently maintained for Cushings and her excessive water drinking habit (it's proving itself to really be a mental addiction, as she gets more "thirsty" when she's bored).

I do think the ascarid infestation was an ongoing problem- they are persistent and I've heard you have to request a specific test for their presence as compared to testing for other parasites. I've also heard they've shown signs of becoming immune to ivermectin wormers in Canada, but the Fenbendazole really knocks them out. On the other hand, the same article mentioned that strongyles seem more killed off by ivermectin and not so much by fenbendazole.

Since your filly is only 19 months old, she may not have developed the typical "immunity" to ascarids as the majority of older horses. Also, I would suggest if you were going to do any more bloodwork-related tests, check for Cushings or insulin resistance. Monitor just how much water your filly is drinking. If it's double or triple that of a horse of her age and size, or if she's also a hearty salt-licker, don't overindulge her by providing two buckets in the stall (as we did for our mare, to her detriment).

I plan on doing more research and documentation into the subject of horses with this type of "mystery ailment", especially when it occurs in younger horses. This is the first case I've heard of with a lot of the same key symptoms as my horse had/has.

[Callie's Mom]

wow, how interesting, I hope this is helpful not only with regards to the OP, but also if you are able to get this info on to the web or some "more public" forum.

[IIIBarsV]

I plan on continuing to document for at least until the end of 2008. After that, I'm going to do a report on the entire project and get it out to the equine world. I'm going to be attending an equine program through Guelph University, so it'll be easier if I end up working with/through that.

I'm very interested to hear more about this filly, so updates would be greatly appreciated.

[Equine747]

quote : classical dream
I would try giving her loads of vitamins and minerals. Even if it doesnt cure the problem, it wouldnt hurt and would help with her overall health.

be careful, to many Vitamins are worse then to little!

[Equine747]

IIIBarsV, You have wonderful Information I really hope that this helps the OP!

[TraceyT]

IIIBarsV, you are my sole mate!!!!

You have no idea how much your post has helped me. My filly grows the shaggiest winter coat, she looks like a donkey at the moment, her face hair is so long and shaggy and the rest of her coat is actually matted looking and dry.

She will shed it out in the summer but there will still be long old hair from the winter left.

She drinks to no end and like your horse, if she is left in her stall over night with one pail of water, in the morning her stools will have become harder, not formed but a least you don't have to worry about the splash on your clothes.
Two hours after turnout and full access to unlimited water, well let me put it this way, "bombs away and where are my splash pants".
I did monitor her water for two days and she was at the 50litre mark per day, only because I had to get some sleep and put one pail in her stall. If I put in two she would have drank both.

She did have roundworms as a weanling and was treated for it, they have not come up since in the fecal but the tapeworms have. I have recently dewormed her with Quest Plus and did not see anything in her stool.

On turnout in the morning she goes to water right away, and drinks till she looks like she is going to explode.

I have also read about the excessive water drinking but was told that she drinks so much because she needs to stay hydrated.
When I first got her she would pass on hay to lick salt, vet told me to remove salt as she was doing this for self preservation, she had water running out her back end she licked so much salt and drank so much. Now she is better as I put salt into her feed.
The biggest problem with this filly is when she urinates. There is not enough urine for the amount of water she drinks, and it is thick.

Her energy level is up a little since I have started to feed her like a normal yearling. She fights for her food and seems more happy to move about (although it is -15c here) so moving is a must.

I will let you know how the tests results turn out.

Once again thank you for taking the time to post your story.

I was afraid to limit the water intake as I thought if she is drinking so much then she needs it. We had a holstein calf one time that would actually drink so much water that it would bloat itself and then get very uncomfortable, but if you let her drink more she would.