[TrueColoursFarm]

I have a client who is breeding a lovely hunter mare to GG, but also asked about breeding her pony mare to him as well.

I have never bred ponies - period - nor has GG ever bred one either. He's bred smaller Arab mares but I dont think they'd count - genetically - in the same way a true pony mare would!

Here is what she wrote:

I was wondering if you ever breed to ponies. I have a very fancy 12-3 hand chestnut mare. She is by Carolinas Red Fox, out of a mare named Spring Fling who is by a thoroughbred. I bred her to a 14-3 hand thoroughbred 6 years ago. We had a fabulous baby that sold this year and is now up in Maine raising the new owner’s grandchildren, who will be able to show him from leadline through the pony hunters. He is a pocket pony, and only grew to 14 hands, but does the horse strides with ease. Let me know if you have any experience with the size you get if you breed to small. I know it is a **** shoot for size, but I love palomino ponies

Does anyone have ANY ideas what a cross with GG (16.1hh) would or should produce height wise???

Thanks!

[Miss Neigh]

This may sound rude, but it is not my intention. Sound's to me that she just wants to breed her pony because, it is a mare and is able to produce offspring. And a palomino one at that, if crossed with GG, which she states in her email "its a **** shoot for height but, i just love palomino ponies". I don't see that as a good reason to breed. There's plenty palomino ponies running around.

[madvoice]

Maybe she wants a good sized galloway out of the pony mare. Ability may have something to do with it as well, not just colour. That would be a bonus. TB blood often refines and improves on pony stock. That said, back on topic I dare say she should expect the progeny to be anywhere between 14hh and 16hh. I have seen some very interesting heights come out of the mix. I know of pony mares that have given birth to foals (out of TB stallions) that end up being bigger than the stallion.

For example, Spook's (my Welsh Colt) dam is 12.2hh. His sire is 14hh. Spook is now 13.2hh and will most likely mature out at 14.2hh.

[Shannon]

Oh wow, no way to tell. Like madvoice said, many interesting and random heights can be produced from crossing a pony with a horse. I've seen 12 hand 1/2 TBs and then I used to ride a 16.1h Connemara/TB cross. I wouldn't even try to guess what they would produce!

But besides that, I think I would do it if I were you. Introduce GG into a new market

[JBandRio]

She did say the mare is fancy. Whether that's our definition of "nice enough to breed" isn't for us to guess

With the first foal, it would seem that the mare does not throw particularly large or small, as the height of the foal is right about in the middle of the 2 parents, which is what one would normally expect.

This leaves it to whether or not GG has influence on height - does he tend to throw bigger or smaller? If neither, then the liklihood is that the foal out of this cross would be right about in the middle - 14.2/14.3 If the owner gets very very lucky, she gets a large pony at the upper end of the height - could be worth HUGE amounts of $$ if it's nice. She gets veeryyyy unlucky if the foal reaches 15h - the Hony size. But, depending on how she markets it, if the foal is suitable as an eventer or is a fancy dressage prospect, the $$ could still be up there.

[TrueColoursFarm]

The pony mare in question is a top "A" level pony. I have no idea what her actual conformation is like, but she wins consistently at the biggest shows up the east coast of the USA - a tough venue for sure!

GG tends to throw bigger than he is (16.1hh) but we have also never bred him to a pony that is genetically "small" through many many generations to see if his "large" genes will dominate the "small" genes or if the pony foal will be a perfect mix between the 2 of their heights ...

I hope they decide to go for it - I'd love to see a GG pony foal in the rings and this one WOULD be campaigned at all of the shows as well

[ryu2832]

I don't like to breed over a hand, hand and a half max, difference between stallion and mare. I know it works out for people most of the time, but I know of a pony that was from a small pony mare hands bred to a 16-17 stallion that was born with a very bad spine deformity.

http://www.clearwater-farm.com/html/photos.htm Left column, fourth pic down.

[Cheeky Monkey]

PonyxTB is THE hunter pony, welsh pony is best. We have a lot of breeders of welshxTB and welshXwb around here. IF they say in pony range they sell for $$$. A friend bred her 12.3h welsh mare, the cute as a button type, to a 16.2h dutch WB. The colt is now 2yrs and is about 13.3h.
And really, if you know how to market and show your 14.3h-15h hunter, the money is the same. It is a myth that those heights do not sell...you just have to know what to show and who to see them to.

[JBandRio]

Maybe it's a bit different in Canada, but in the US it's VERY hard to market a 15h Hony in the hunters, unless maybe as Children's hunter, but those tend to not bring a hefty price.

Of course you have the occasional 15h horse who can make the strides of the bigger horses without looking like he's running down the lines. But most of them, simply due to leg length, do not have the reach, so they are either adding strides, or running down the lines, both of which will knock them out of the ribbons. That's why it's very hard to market the 15/15.1h Hony to hunters.

[Cheeky Monkey]

yes, the "hony" doesnt bring AS much money, but they do still sell. And right now, at least in Canada, ponies are selling less often than 15+h horses, cause parents are not wanting to spend the money on a pony and keep it for a few years and then have to find a new horse.