[allison finch]

Originally Posted by Lopinslow

I get SO DARN sick of people slamming others and putting them down for their chosen displine, breed of horse, etc...

if you don't LIKE it, then don't participate in it!


I don't

do you see many of us "un-natural western pleasure" people slamming other discplines or breeds?


Actually, I do see that all the time here.


riding period is not "natural".
So, following your arguement, people also shouldn't breed horses that excel in their chosen discpline. Be it a dressage horse that has that perfect self carriage and movement (just like we do with our WP horses) the jumping horse that sails over jumps with ease, the reiner that slides to a stop and rolls back on his own in the pasture playing, the barrel horse that is incredibly fast AND quick on his feet!

Exactly. All these are natural to horses and seen both in the pasture and in the wild. I just stated that the extremely low head carriage and the ultra movements are not something I've seen horses do very often. Even WP horses I see romping in the pasture do not move that way. I was just giving an opinion. Sorry I offended you.

there are a lot of discplines that i don't really like, but i also respect those that participate in them and don't slam them, their horses, etc.

Sorry you saw it as a slam. I was simply giving an observation. There are many things I don't like seeing in my disciplines as well.

too bad others can't be respectful as well.

If we can't offer opinions, what is a forum for?

BTW, I did make a remark that, on rereading, even offended me. I removed it and offer my apologies. However, I still am sad to see those movements perpetuated.

[Lopinslow]

So, you claim you have never SEEN a western pleasure horse move that way in a pasture.
What level of western pleasure horses have you seen? (IME, open show level is NOT a good comparison)
have you been to any western pleasure farms that are breeding congress and world quality movers?

I guarentee the horses bred for western pleasure DO carry themselves level and are naturally as collected and rounded as you can get right from the start!! Here is a photo of my orphan foal taken at 2 weeks old (he is now 2)

[allison finch]

Originally Posted by Lopinslow

So, you claim you have never SEEN a western pleasure horse move that way in a pasture.
What level of western pleasure horses have you seen? (IME, open show level is NOT a good comparison)
have you been to any western pleasure farms that are breeding congress and world quality movers?

I guarentee the horses bred for western pleasure DO carry themselves level and are naturally as collected and rounded as you can get right from the start!! Here is a photo of my orphan foal taken at 2 weeks old (he is now 2)

This is what I said;


Exactly. All these are natural to horses and seen both in the pasture and in the wild. I just stated that the extremely low head carriage and the ultra movements are not something I've seen horses do very often. Even WP horses I see romping in the pasture do not move that way. I was just giving an opinion. Sorry I offended you.


I was a trainer at a multidisciplinary barn in Colorado. They had some world class reining/working cowhorse/ and WP trainers there. I have seen them train and show.

As for the foal, what a beauty, But, all horses will move that way from time to time whether they are QH's or hannoverians. Show me a video of him doing a show worthy lope.

[lvmypnt]

Oh dear.......caught without popcorn. Be right back *runs to store*

[Rosie12]

Originally Posted by lvmypnt

Oh dear.......caught without popcorn. Be right back *runs to store*

My thoughts exactly...

[cowgurly02]

LOL!!! I would pay money to see a video of a horse in the wild doing a passage or any upper level dressage movement (EXACTLY the way it's done in the show ring)

[shepherd406]

Horses don't naturally run around poles or barrels, they don't natually have a great dressage frame, they don't naturally passage, piaffe, or 'jog', or 'lope'.

Horses walk, trot, canter, & RUN.

They carry their heads high, they carry them level, they carry them low.

What they're trained to do is another story.

[teaka]

A few years ago, I had a horse who was trained to four beat at the lope, he showed the circuit and did fairly well at the time. In the pasture when playing with his friends, he WOULD four beat around, and he would jog towards his pasture mates..

I'm not saying that four beating was good, but he was trained to do it undersaddle and that's what he did for years afterwards in the pasture, and even after he was trained to stop four beating.

[bnttyra]

Originally Posted by allison finch

This is what I said;


Exactly. All these are natural to horses and seen both in the pasture and in the wild. I just stated that the extremely low head carriage and the ultra movements are not something I've seen horses do very often. Even WP horses I see romping in the pasture do not move that way. I was just giving an opinion. Sorry I offended you.


I was a trainer at a multidisciplinary barn in Colorado. They had some world class reining/working cowhorse/ and WP trainers there. I have seen them train and show.

As for the foal, what a beauty, But, all horses will move that way from time to time whether they are QH's or hannoverians. Show me a video of him doing a show worthy lope.

Too bad I don't have a video of DeDe on a lunge line as a yearling. I was consistantly having to get her head off the ground at a jog and a lope. She did it naturally, I didn't ask for her head to be that low, that is where she liked it when she was relaxed.

Like so many others have said, if you don't like it don't do it! The trends have changed dramatically and continue to. Just last year at the open shows I go to, there was a horse that did HUS and the WP classes (an APHA) that you couldn't tell when it was loping or jogging, they looked almost identical and were the same speed. And the horse's head was almost on the ground. That horse and rider were winning everything. I just went to the same open show this year ant the judges actually made a point to say something to the rider about that it was too slow and she was never placed above 5th and these were big classes of 20 plus.

I am still new to WP but I have learned how really difficult it is to get a horse to remain consistent at all three gaits. Many judges today are not rewarding the old 80s and 90s version of WP but are looking for more natural movement. DeDe is naturally slow, seriously, getting her at her top speed is ridiculously difficult and still very slow. She is slow legged and has a big stride which makes it feel even slower.

I would suggest researching what is the trends for today before you start bashing a discipline you don't know much about.

[crazyellowhorse]

Originally Posted by prairiegirl

My experience is not meant to insult anyone--I just do not understand this discipline!

I enjoy watching horse shows but up until this last winter I never saw a 'real' western pleasure horse in person, just the odd time on TV and never paid much attention, I preferred seeing the working horses show. When the first horse come out I swear I almost asked my companion why the girl was riding a lame horse! LOL That higgidy-jiggidy-bunny-hop lope thingy? Weird. If my horse did that I'd get off in a panic thinking she had a four inch nail in the sole of her hoof and it was causing her severe pain or she'd broken a leg along the way...it just looks "off"! It doesn't look natural.

Could someone explain this?

In my opinion Prairiegirl, and it's only my opinion so take it for what its worth, I think what you are seeing is partly a regional, time warp thing. I have seen it too. I have seen both AB WP horses and some high very dollar US WP horse (in the flesh). I find that even both horse-wise and training wise we are about 5 yrs behind the times.
The only "big name" WP stallion we had in AB for a very LONG time was Three Dimension Zip and he basically cornered the market in showing and breeding. He is nice, don't get me wrong, and has shown at the Worlds but (in my OPINION again) he is nowhere near the quality of say the Assets, the Investors, or the Good Bars of the US. I am just seeing, within the last few years, we are starting to see a greater influx of higher quality different pedigreed show horses. I am also starting to see a bigger turnout for our open and AQHA shows which is AWESOME and includes ME too!!
For whatever reason, I really don't know english, our HUS stuff is bang on. Maybe its universal quality in horses that do HUS perhaps its preformance and training. I don't know.
AS for training, I still see a few AB horses out there with their noses at their knees and too many with bobbing heads. I also see many that are being forced into uncomfortable gaits that makes me want to stand up and yell "JUST LET HIM MOVE OUT!!" Alas, all I can do is try and train the best I can based on what is best for my horse. I love the way Lilly moves (when she's not hurt!). She naturally moves with a level top line and her neck slightly lower and she just floats. She is bred to be both a WP/HUS whiz, but I see her moving more and more like a hunter. If that is going to be where she's most comfortable then I guess I better change disciplines, get an english saddle, and take lessons!!