Western Pleasure Headset

AllAroundRdr · 07-02-2008, 02:48 PM

Even from the angle taken you can see where the neck and the shoulder meet as well as the neck and the front of the chest.

I gave my opinion on the horse's tie-in and how I felt it'd effect the desired headset the member wants. You're free to disagree, I simply stated what I saw from what was provided.

dotgotcalm · 07-02-2008, 04:19 PM

Well, I'm wondering what the director knows about this horse that you don't. Being told to ride her in a curb and a tie down isn't a good sign, IMO, about this horses previous training or the directors experience with her. I think I'd ask a few more questions and try to find out why she made that recommendation.

Still, I'll recommend this: at a standstill place both your heels on her and sort of draw them up her sides as far as your ankles will allow while you lift straight up on the reins to make light contact with her mouth. She'll resist, try to move forward, sideways, etc. and likely throw her head a bit as well. Ignore all that and keep your hands raised and your heels working up her sides until she lowers her head even a fraction. The instant she does release everything and praise her. As long as she keeps it down leave her alone and let her stand. The moment she raises it, repeat your cues. You'll likely have to settle for a very small lowering at first but she should get it with repetition and start to drop farther for you. If you play with this long enough you can eventually get her to put her neck at any level you want simply by only releasing when it's at that spot. Not any higher or any lower.

All you're trying to do with this is to teach her a cue, hand raised, heels rolled up sides, to lower her poll. Repeat all this until she'll drop her head without a fuss when you begin to raise your hand while your legs are on her. Once she's got it standing still move on and try it at the walk. When she has it at the walk go on to the jog and then the lope. Any time you stop the mare ask her to drop her head.

This won't turn her into a WP horse by any means but it should give you some control over the level of her neck and BTW, when a horse drops his poll below the level of his withers it has a calming effect so, it might not be a bad idea to really encourage her to drop it really low at the standstill. I have a feeling this horse has some major issues and anything that calms her is likely to be a plus.

For all those who are thinking it.......I know, I know!

You are right, this mare should be put into a snaffle and be brought back to basics but I have a feeling that the OP doesn't have time to do all that so, I'm handing her a little cheat. I could be wrong but I'm thinking this is a college barn and she has little to no say so in what she can do, the equipment she can use, or how long she has to do it. Am I right?

JBandRio · 07-02-2008, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AllAroundRdr

Even from the angle taken you can see where the neck and the shoulder meet as well as the neck and the front of the chest.

I gave my opinion on the horse's tie-in and how I felt it'd effect the desired headset the member wants. You're free to disagree, I simply stated what I saw from what was provided.

Don't get me wrong, I totally agree that some horses just don't have the neck tie-in that is conducive to a WP look. I just don't see how you can tell that from *these* pictures. For the record, I see a neck that ties in a bit low, which isn't un-conducive to WP

IIIBarsV · 07-02-2008, 07:36 PM

Note: What dot recommended only works well in a leverage bit. Do it in a snaffle, and I will jerk you right off your horse. With my mynd powars.

gallop girl · 07-03-2008, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dotgotcalm

For all those who are thinking it.......I know, I know!

You are right, this mare should be put into a snaffle and be brought back to basics but I have a feeling that the OP doesn't have time to do all that so, I'm handing her a little cheat. I could be wrong but I'm thinking this is a college barn and she has little to no say so in what she can do, the equipment she can use, or how long she has to do it. Am I right?

Nope, I'm not even in college yet. I think I have as long as I need and I ride by myself most of the time, so it doesn't really matter what I change.

Would the cuing thing work better with a snaffle or a curb? I think I'll try that today; It makes sense to me.

AllAroundRdr · 07-03-2008, 08:58 AM

Perhaps I missed this answer in the previous pages, if so, I apologize for asking again, but does this mare move away from pressure (i.e. leg and seat)? Does she neck rein nicely or is she green/new to neck reining?

huntergrl4212 · 07-03-2008, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quita-keepen

I have used bunggie cords, I liked the out come. But I have heard of it messing up some horses, ask the owner first. But I loved them.

ruined my horse(due to owners not actual method-wroks if used properly)..one set of owners left her in the paddock with it and had them on 24/7..now she is like that except when free-running hyperly around the arena

dotgotcalm · 07-03-2008, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gallop girl

Nope, I'm not even in college yet. I think I have as long as I need and I ride by myself most of the time, so it doesn't really matter what I change.

Would the cuing thing work better with a snaffle or a curb? I think I'll try that today; It makes sense to me.

Sshhh...don't tell IIIBars, we have a difference of opinion on bits

, but I teach it the same way in any bit. You don't want to put a lot of pressure on the mouth just enough to be annoying so she's looking for a way to get away from it. It's more of a hold than a pull if you know what I mean. If you ride her with spurs just roll them up her sides like your lifting her belly.

AllAroundRdr · 07-03-2008, 10:23 AM

I'm not disputing I'm just trying to understand what you're saying. (Bold) -- I could be completely misunderstanding this section, but although we all want I horses to move away/off pressure, there's that lovely line of understanding and moving away/off and evading. This horse obviously appears to be lacking some fundemental training and there's gaps here and there -- how would you prevent the horse evading the discomfort rather than understanding and following through with what the rider is asking which is to yield to the pressure?

Quote:

Originally Posted by dotgotcalm

Sshhh...don't tell IIIBars, we have a difference of opinion on bits

, but I teach it the same way in any bit. You don't want to put a lot of pressure on the mouth just enough to be annoying so she's looking for a way to get away from it. It's more of a hold than a pull if you know what I mean. If you ride her with spurs just roll them up her sides like your lifting her belly.

IIIBarsV · 07-03-2008, 12:14 PM

I'm not saying pull straight back... lift a little, but do not let your hands get above your eyeballs.

I usually apply pressure to the reins as described in my first post- but by squeezing my fingers shut, and squeezing my calves. My wrists may lift a little to increase the pressure if the horse isn't "getting it" from the lighter stuff, but my heels stay down. We want them to clue in to the light, barely visible cues first, so that you don't have to ruin your equitation in the showring to get the result. After all, you don't see horsemanship champions winning the class with their heels up and their arms above their head. (Although if they could stay on the horse while riding with that sort of position, they should win! lol).

Either way, whether you use Dot's method, my method, or a combination of both, your timing will have to be pretty good- bad timing (ie, asking AFTER the horse raises its head), will give you a yo-yo head. I would suggest riding on light contact, or a rein tight enough that it is loose until you squeeze your fingers shut. This will help you ride quieter and keep your timing quick.

07-02-2008, 02:48 PM	#21
AllAroundRdr Senior Member+ Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Southern CA - The Land of Fires & Shakey Ground Posts: 3,150 Images: 9	Even from the angle taken you can see where the neck and the shoulder meet as well as the neck and the front of the chest. I gave my opinion on the horse's tie-in and how I felt it'd effect the desired headset the member wants. You're free to disagree, I simply stated what I saw from what was provided. __________________ People say riding isn't a sport...Well you see, the 'ball' I play with has a mind of its own. I've been Goosed..and I LIKED it!

07-02-2008, 07:36 PM	#24
IIIBarsV Senior Member+ Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,362 Images: 27	Note: What dot recommended only works well in a leverage bit. Do it in a snaffle, and I will jerk you right off your horse. With my mynd powars. __________________ Three Bars The Fifth Wish I'd Get Lucky Chipped In Stone Zip Code Bay B Suns Eternal Flame How can you ride in order to make your horse's job easier for them?

07-03-2008, 08:58 AM	#26
AllAroundRdr Senior Member+ Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Southern CA - The Land of Fires & Shakey Ground Posts: 3,150 Images: 9	Perhaps I missed this answer in the previous pages, if so, I apologize for asking again, but does this mare move away from pressure (i.e. leg and seat)? Does she neck rein nicely or is she green/new to neck reining? __________________ People say riding isn't a sport...Well you see, the 'ball' I play with has a mind of its own. I've been Goosed..and I LIKED it!

07-03-2008, 12:14 PM	#30
IIIBarsV Senior Member+ Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,362 Images: 27	I'm not saying pull straight back... lift a little, but do not let your hands get above your eyeballs. I usually apply pressure to the reins as described in my first post- but by squeezing my fingers shut, and squeezing my calves. My wrists may lift a little to increase the pressure if the horse isn't "getting it" from the lighter stuff, but my heels stay down. We want them to clue in to the light, barely visible cues first, so that you don't have to ruin your equitation in the showring to get the result. After all, you don't see horsemanship champions winning the class with their heels up and their arms above their head. (Although if they could stay on the horse while riding with that sort of position, they should win! lol). Either way, whether you use Dot's method, my method, or a combination of both, your timing will have to be pretty good- bad timing (ie, asking AFTER the horse raises its head), will give you a yo-yo head. I would suggest riding on light contact, or a rein tight enough that it is loose until you squeeze your fingers shut. This will help you ride quieter and keep your timing quick. __________________ Three Bars The Fifth Wish I'd Get Lucky Chipped In Stone Zip Code Bay B Suns Eternal Flame How can you ride in order to make your horse's job easier for them?

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07-02-2008, 04:19 PM	#22
dotgotcalm Senior Member+ Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 555 Images: 4	Well, I'm wondering what the director knows about this horse that you don't. Being told to ride her in a curb and a tie down isn't a good sign, IMO, about this horses previous training or the directors experience with her. I think I'd ask a few more questions and try to find out why she made that recommendation. Still, I'll recommend this: at a standstill place both your heels on her and sort of draw them up her sides as far as your ankles will allow while you lift straight up on the reins to make light contact with her mouth. She'll resist, try to move forward, sideways, etc. and likely throw her head a bit as well. Ignore all that and keep your hands raised and your heels working up her sides until she lowers her head even a fraction. The instant she does release everything and praise her. As long as she keeps it down leave her alone and let her stand. The moment she raises it, repeat your cues. You'll likely have to settle for a very small lowering at first but she should get it with repetition and start to drop farther for you. If you play with this long enough you can eventually get her to put her neck at any level you want simply by only releasing when it's at that spot. Not any higher or any lower. All you're trying to do with this is to teach her a cue, hand raised, heels rolled up sides, to lower her poll. Repeat all this until she'll drop her head without a fuss when you begin to raise your hand while your legs are on her. Once she's got it standing still move on and try it at the walk. When she has it at the walk go on to the jog and then the lope. Any time you stop the mare ask her to drop her head. This won't turn her into a WP horse by any means but it should give you some control over the level of her neck and BTW, when a horse drops his poll below the level of his withers it has a calming effect so, it might not be a bad idea to really encourage her to drop it really low at the standstill. I have a feeling this horse has some major issues and anything that calms her is likely to be a plus. For all those who are thinking it.......I know, I know! You are right, this mare should be put into a snaffle and be brought back to basics but I have a feeling that the OP doesn't have time to do all that so, I'm handing her a little cheat. I could be wrong but I'm thinking this is a college barn and she has little to no say so in what she can do, the equipment she can use, or how long she has to do it. Am I right?