[PUtNEE]

Originally Posted by ironartist

I said nowhere's in any of my posts that my horse fights pressure I don't know where you read that. He does fight getting a bit put in his mouth and was told to wait on it till he knows how to rein before I introduce it. And also it isn't what you called poverty it's spending on something I can probably do myself with a bit of knowlage from willing people unlike yourself, cause it sounds like your unwilling to help someone in need.

told you it would sound harsh!

I just used the word 'poverty' because of the impoverished artist reference. No offense intended at all.

Your horse isn't giving to pressure because he doesn't easily slow down or accept a bit.

He does not need 'to know how to rein' until you use a bit. He does need you to know how to rein him however.

I get irate because I see many horses permanently damaged by inexperienced hands. If this seems harsh, so be it. There's only so much help you can get online.

[ironartist]

I went up and talked to the local tack guy and he thinks my hackamore doesn't fit up on his face far enough. I bought a book starting colts but think he is a bit more advanced than that.
When you say to rein him I say he steers without much pressure at all, and the only time I have to be forcefull at all is when he wants to steer himself into a dead end. I am gonna start reintroducing the snaffle to him gently to see if in the next few days he changes his attitude towards it. My furrior feels inexpieranced horses need to know directions before abusing his mouth with a bit. That way by the time the bits introduced it will be a gentler learning expireance and they already know what to do

[LindaMM]

Originally Posted by ironartist

I went up and talked to the local tack guy and he thinks my hackamore doesn't fit up on his face far enough. I bought a book starting colts but think he is a bit more advanced than that.
When you say to rein him I say he steers without much pressure at all, and the only time I have to be forcefull at all is when he wants to steer himself into a dead end. I am gonna start reintroducing the snaffle to him gently to see if in the next few days he changes his attitude towards it. My furrior feels inexpieranced horses need to know directions before abusing his mouth with a bit. That way by the time the bits introduced it will be a gentler learning expireance and they already know what to do

Yes... this is the point of the ground work for lateral flexion.

By the way.... properly introduced, a snaffle does not "abuse" the mouth. I was watching Tommy Garlands show on RFD-TV today and he had a great show about introducing a filly to flexion and bitting. If you can get RFD-TV (on Dish Network or DirecTV), it will be a great help to you.

[lbhugg]

When you are out on the trail or even just riding don't go in a straight line for very long use trees to circle or anything you can find this will get him to start thinking about you and lots of stopping will also help. Also as far as abusing his mouth with a bit. The bit is only as harsh as you make it. I can use a halter and make that severe. When riding I always tell my students instead of steering the horse guide him and that tends to get them to have softer hands !!!! also read read read that always helps to Best of Luck

[magoo320mj]

I wish I lived nearby - it'd be so much easier to help!! I personally prefer working horses in a snaffle bit before moving on to a hackamore, the cues seem to "make more sense" and they side rein and flex better. A snaffle isn't harsh as long as you use it correctly. Try just getting him to accept a bit nicer to start with, lots of positive reinforcement! When you do start riding him in a bit, before you even move him, make him flex. Take one rein and gently pull his head toward your boot by bringing your hand to your hip. If he resists, gently tap his mouth with the rein until he gives. IMMEDIATELY release him, then ask him again. Eventually he should bring his head to your boot and leave it there until you release him. Do this on both sides. Once he gets nice and soft, start having him walk/trot/whatever. If he gets going too fast, you can stop him with one rein - just pull his head around like when you're flexing until he stops, then immediately release. This disengages his hindquarters and keeps him from speeding up. As long as you let go as soon as he stops, then do it again if he gets too fast, he should get the picture to move more slowly. The more you flex him, the softer and more responsive he'll get. Try flexing him at a walk and trot, also. Try to move him in a straight line with his head turned - not necessarily all the way to your boot, but sideways. Work on getting him to move off your legs and not just the reins. Hope this helps - it's a good place to start.

[lbhugg]

Originally Posted by magoo320mj

I wish I lived nearby - it'd be so much easier to help!! I personally prefer working horses in a snaffle bit before moving on to a hackamore, the cues seem to "make more sense" and they side rein and flex better. A snaffle isn't harsh as long as you use it correctly. Try just getting him to accept a bit nicer to start with, lots of positive reinforcement! When you do start riding him in a bit, before you even move him, make him flex. Take one rein and gently pull his head toward your boot by bringing your hand to your hip. If he resists, gently tap his mouth with the rein until he gives. IMMEDIATELY release him, then ask him again. Eventually he should bring his head to your boot and leave it there until you release him. Do this on both sides. Once he gets nice and soft, start having him walk/trot/whatever. If he gets going too fast, you can stop him with one rein - just pull his head around like when you're flexing until he stops, then immediately release. This disengages his hindquarters and keeps him from speeding up. As long as you let go as soon as he stops, then do it again if he gets too fast, he should get the picture to move more slowly. The more you flex him, the softer and more responsive he'll get. Try flexing him at a walk and trot, also. Try to move him in a straight line with his head turned - not necessarily all the way to your boot, but sideways. Work on getting him to move off your legs and not just the reins. Hope this helps - it's a good place to start.

IF this horse doesn't realize how to flex you don't need to bump his face from the get go all you need to do is wait for him to get the correct answer. The bump is only to get a faster response.

[PUtNEE]

Originally Posted by lbhugg

IF this horse doesn't realize how to flex you don't need to bump his face from the get go all you need to do is wait for him to get the correct answer. The bump is only to get a faster response.

agreed!

also, if you bump after holding pressure, you're teaching him that the initial cue (holding) means nothing and if he waits braced, you'll eventually give up and give him inadvertent releases (through the bump).

If you make sure you're holding no tension in the rein, you're simple taking up the slack and holding (not pulling) this will work much faster. OH and make sure you breathe!

[Tallpine]

Hang in there I started sorta green (re-learning) a few years ago with a green horse, and things are a lot better now. Now I'm riding our 3yo a little bit (I'm the only one who's ever been on him so far).

I used to work in Wasilla (sawmill, building houses, and clearing land for houses). That is some thick countryside anywhere that hasn't been cleared. But maybe your horse just feels more comfortable going through it than you do...?

[andiiloveyou624]

you say yall are both green? just remember....
[COLOR="rgb(0, 100, 0)"]green and green make black and blue

.[/color]

[ottbryder]

Originally Posted by ironartist

I went up and talked to the local tack guy and he thinks my hackamore doesn't fit up on his face far enough. I bought a book starting colts but think he is a bit more advanced than that.
When you say to rein him I say he steers without much pressure at all, and the only time I have to be forcefull at all is when he wants to steer himself into a dead end. I am gonna start reintroducing the snaffle to him gently to see if in the next few days he changes his attitude towards it. My furrior feels inexpieranced horses need to know directions before abusing his mouth with a bit. That way by the time the bits introduced it will be a gentler learning expireance and they already know what to do

What your farrier didn't tell you is that hackamores can be just as harsh as a bit if used incorrectly. Just as a bit can be a perfectly gentle experience in the right hands. You really would benefit from a trainer, even if you just take a lesson every couple weeks. We're all perfectly willing to help you here in any way we can, but there's only so much you can learn from the internet, DVD's, and books.