[AnnaBelle02]

Ok, I posted yesterday saying my mare had an overly full udder and her foal had milk all over his face.
Anyway - I figured out it was not my mare there was something wrong with her foal. He wouldn't nurse or take milk from a pail (it was pouring out of her, litterally, so I caught some thinking perhaps she wouldn't allow him to nurse) but that wasn't the case, as I said and he wouldn't even take milk from the pail. BUT the strange thing was he was eating grass/hay/grain normally - he was grazing away fine. I did however notice he seemed to be a little slower than normal, and he was lying down a lot. I took his temp and it was fine but I called the vet out any way.

NOW the vet has diagnosed him but I really don't agree with what he is saying - nor does it make sense to me.
Here are Boomer's (the foal) symptoms first off: he isn't nursing but is eating other food, he has no temperature, he is urinating, his bowel movements are a lot softer than normal but is not really the runs but his bum is a bit dirty, he is a little quieter than normal but still responsive (ears perk forward at noises, he comes when called, staying close to mom).
He is almost 12 weeks old and I wormed him at 6 weeks so really he was due to be wormed again.

Anyways, the vet came out, checked my mare - she is fine, listened to Boomer's stomach and knocked on it and told me he probably has stomach ulcers!! WHAT..!? He is 12 weeks old, is this even possible? And the fact that he hasn't been wormed recently and is on a pasture that hasn't been grazed in over a year makes me first off very suspicious of worms. Any how I refused to give him any of the ulcer meds he left until I see how he responds to the wormer (fenbendazole) the vet left for him. I dosed him with it yesterday afternoon and by last night he was running around a little and starting to nurse and I noticed his bowel movements in his stall this morning were starting to look more "normal". My mare's udder is back to normal size so I assume he is nursing - he is still a little quiet but not as much as yesterday.

So what all do you think? Does it seem more possible to you all that it could be a worm infestation and not ulcers? Any feedback and info you could give me would be much appreciated.

Thanks so much!

[I_love_My_Horse]

Well i really don't know. I think it could be from worms. But i have no clue. So you say it is doing better? I hope it's ok. Good luck.

[Lou3]

A worm infestation is possible and it may be wise to see if he responds to that first. Dont rule out what your vet is saying though, if you are really unsure get a second opinion - even just over the phone - to see if ulcers really is likely.

[Top Dun]

Personally I think that when you give a dewormer you also need to follw up with a probiotic ESPECIALLY in young horses. Not only does the de-wormer Kill the worms, it can also kill the beneficial bacteria in the horses gut. When this happens, it can lead to a lack of appetite in the horse.

Originally Posted by AnnaBelle02

So what all do you think? Does it seem more possible to you all that it could be a worm infestation and not ulcers? Any feedback and info you could give me would be much appreciated.

Thanks so much!

[Dawn]

How did he determine ulcers? Is listening to his stomach literally all he did? If so, you're right, there is no way that he could have actually determined that that is the problem. As far as I know, a scope is the only sure way to tell. What did he leave with you? It might be that it's something that won't hurt, and might even help, even if it's not ulcers.

[AnnaBelle02]

Thats exactly what I thought Dawn - a scope is the only accurate way to tell, and yes all he litterally did was listen and "knock" on my foal's stomach.
Top Dun - he started eating more after the wormer, good point on the probiotics though, I have a strong background in Microbiology so I deffinately know benefits of bacteria - often times people forget about this though.
This guy is one of the best horse vets in our area but some times it pays to talk to someone who has been around horses for a long time: Now this seems logical,

There is a lady that I am very privilaged to know - she is 85 years old and doesn't look or act a day over 50. She and her husband bred and trained horses for the millitary for years so I decided I was going to give her a call and see what she thought (prior to this though I had had a bunch of horse friends as well as my foals breeder tell me he had probably just over eatten and made himself feeld ill). Any how, Mrs. Foster (the elderly lady I phoned) said 1. Your mare has been on primarily hay since the time he was born up until about 10 days ago when you brought them home and since then they have been out on grass for aprox. 12 hours a day
2. The grass this year is extreemly rich (which is true - its been growing all summer like it was the start of June)
3. Your mare has no ill effects to gourging herself on grass, she is used to it but unfortuneatly your baby is not
Therefore her conclusion (one which she claims to have seen at least 5 times every year) the mare's milk is passing too many nutrients to the foal, the milk is too rich, and its upsetting his stomach and this is the reason why he will nibble at hay, grass and grain but not his mom's milk. So she has suggested decreasing their turnout time or putting them on a smaller field and seeing if it makes a difference.

I'm not sure but to me putting 2 and 2 together makes perfect sense - he was fine until she was turned out eating so much grass. Its the same effect that a grown horse gets when turned out in the spring.
I'm not sure if its true but hearing more than one person (breeders, trainers and fellow owners alike) saying basically the same thing - he's "eating" too much, seems to make sense.

[Dawn]

That does make sense, but it seems odd that he would start eating again just after you had wormed him. The milk would also taste differently and he might just not have liked it.

[Blistering Winds]

Personally, I would listen to the old woman.

Since the horses have had their diet interrupted with the turn-out on grass, that can upset both the mare and foal. Since the foal is eating grass, that in itself can upset the foal's tummy.

The wormy issue could also be a factor. The worms may be there, but because the grass has upset his tummy, it has upset the worms, which makes him MORE upset.

I would get a second opinion if he starts up again. it is rare to see a foal with ulcers. When you do, it is usually something CAUSED it, other than stress. Especially one that young!!

Good Luck.

Watch him over the next few days. If he's doing great, then keep it up!

[circlea]

by what you are saying the vet didnt do the proper tests for ulcers, but i can tell you that i have heard and also read that up to 50% of foals have some type of ulcers.my book says that stress can cause them. it also says that it can occur at 2 to 3 months of age when "maternal acquired immunity begins to decrease" here are some symptoms the book lists for ulcers in foals, abdominal pain, grinding of teeth,frothy salivation,poor appetite,diarrhea of varying frequency, pot bellied appearance, and a tendency to lie on the back. it does say that scoping is the only true way to diagnose them. call your vet back and ask him how he came to the diagnosis of ulcers just by tapping the foal on the side and maybe he will explain a little better why he came to this conclusion. just my .02 for what ever its worth. i would check into it before just writing his diagnosis off. hope this helps

circlea

[AnnaBelle02]

Well he seems much better today (totally annoying his mom and running around like crazy) - we have moved them into another field where the grass is not so lush so we'll watch and see if it makes a difference (so far over 12 hours it seems to). He is back nursing at a normal frequency.
Thanks for all your info guys!