[TB Jumpers]

I have this horse (not junior) that loves to run through your hands. We dont jump, hes never jumped for what i know. He will not listen to u at all but once u but a pelhum in his mouth even if u dont hold the curb rein hes awesome. He will stop in a snaffle but i mean u to yank on his mouth or pull really hard! I dont like this. I want to be able to ride him in a snaffle and he be awesome. Any ideas??

[AtomicPenny]

I'd double check that the rest of your position is good. Legs and seat and weight distribution pays a huge part in impulsion, speed, and transitions. If he'll listen to a pelham without any curb, but not a regular snaffle it could have something to do with you. You know you have more in the hand if needed so therefore ride more confidently and relaxed...where with a regular snaffle you may tense up.

Some horses just need a larger bit to contain all the impulsion and through motion, but if you're not even touching the curb it doesn't sound like that is the case with him.

Happen to have pics or video of you riding him (preferably in the snaffle and your snaffelized pelham haha for comparisons sake)? Or any more information on his ability level at the moment would be helpful too. Right now it's just the first thing that comes into my head...which is always rider haha

Karen

[TB Jumpers]

Originally Posted by AtomicPenny

I'd double check that the rest of your position is good. Legs and seat and weight distribution pays a huge part in impulsion, speed, and transitions. If he'll listen to a pelham without any curb, but not a regular snaffle it could have something to do with you. You know you have more in the hand if needed so therefore ride more confidently and relaxed...where with a regular snaffle you may tense up.

Some horses just need a larger bit to contain all the impulsion and through motion, but if you're not even touching the curb it doesn't sound like that is the case with him.

Happen to have pics or video of you riding him (preferably in the snaffle and your snaffelized pelham haha for comparisons sake)? Or any more information on his ability level at the moment would be helpful too. Right now it's just the first thing that comes into my head...which is always rider haha

Karen

I dont have and pic/videos its my computer they wont let my have em on there. It will eat them all up lol. But I dont think that i ever get tense on him just mad b/c he wont stop. He will do walk to halt good but other than that hes like NOO IM NOT GONNA LISTEN! I dont know how much of this was the owner that hade him before never made him listen to her or not.

[AtomicPenny]

Originally Posted by TB Jumpers

But I dont think that i ever get tense on him just mad b/c he wont stop

that tenses you up whether you notice it or not, subtle tightening of your legs blocks the engagement and lightening of the front end needed for downward transitions. And getting mad and using reins more and more as he avoids leg and seat further shuts down the front end and gives him something to brace against, to further avoid the transition

Karen

[TB Jumpers]

Originally Posted by AtomicPenny

that tenses you up whether you notice it or not, subtle tightening of your legs blocks the engagement and lightening of the front end needed for downward transitions. And getting mad and using reins more and more as he avoids leg and seat further shuts down the front end and gives him something to brace against, to further avoid the transition

Karen

GOOD POINT! lol yeah. Would lunging him and using my voice and saying "walk" or "trot" or what ever i want him to do would help? I use my voice under saddle but he acks like he dose not know what i want.

[AtomicPenny]

some people swear by lunging and voice commands that way (I personally hate lunging haha so rarely do it) but if it's something you want to try theres better people to ask about it on here than me

what I would do is focus on upward transitions and quality of gaits before you become too worried about the quality of downward transitions. Downward transitions require the horse to engage their hind end, raise their back, lighten their front end, and sink into the lower gait. A downward transition on a horse who can't stay engaged and moving in a proper frame for an extended length of time drops onto their forehand (taking their head and the reins with them) and ends up almost plowing down into the lower gait. Which could be the running through your hands feeling that you're describing. How is he on the flat in gaits and in upward transitions. Does he stay engaged, raise his back, move all that energy through his topline and relaxed into the bridle. Where you say he moves well in the snaffle until it gets harsh in the downward transitions I think he may just need more work on staying balanced and engaged. Try transitions within gaits and exercises like halt-walk-trot-walk-trot-canter-trot-etc. Don't ask him to skip a gait in either an upward or downward transition until he can keep his bum under himself and his front end light.....and these exercises are going to make sure you ride long and soft and following so that you can stay with his motion and not hinder any of the motion he's going to try to bring over his topline.

Karen

[Just_me]

What kind of snaffle are you using?Try a double jointed snaffle.

To me this sounds like a gab somewhere in his training.But I also wanted to add that some horses simply don't like snaffles.Just because the 'average'horse gets ridden in a snaffle bit,doesn't automatically make it the right bit for'every horse'.

You said

He will stop in a snaffle but i mean u to yank on his mouth or pull really hard!

maybe that is the answer right there.Force is never useful,especially not when holding the reins.
If he doesn't want to stop,turn him into a one-rein stop.You bring his head to you leg and don't let him get out until he stops.If you repeat this over and over again,you will have a responsive,sensetive horse within no time.But you need to be consistant and stop the pulling!When you teach the one rein stop to a horse,start from a walk.Under no circumstances should you introduce this technique while being in a full gallop,the horse could easily flip over by the sudden head movement(if he is not use to it).
Also,make sure that you ride properly.In no way shape or form am I saying or even questioning your riding,however alot of times a simple issue with the rider can lead to a big problem in the horse.Definitely check your own riding position.
You might also benefit from different exercises:cavalettis,transitions,ground work,lunging etc.
I would strongly recommend cavalettis or ground poles for your type of problem.Here is why:the cavalettis do not only require the focus of the horse,further more,the spacing requires the horse to take smaller strides and listen to you.
After a line of cavalettis,bring the horse to a full hold,and back it up.Then turn around and do the line again.On the other side you stop again,back up.You repeat this process a couple of times and will probably notice how the horse becomes more responsive.Throughout the exercise,focus on a consistant pace.If possible,slower than 6 mph.Post low and slow,use your seat,and try not to pull on the reins.Just do half halts.If you come to a stop,no pulling...ask for it,if he doesn't do it-one rein stop.
Never pull on two reins at the same time.If you do,you will only help the horse to bring the hindquaters more under himself and therefore give him something to push off from.

Here is a video that explains what I just wrote

YouTube - The Power of the 'One Rein Stop'

YouTube - www.horseproblems.com.au - Training the Horse to Stand

Hope this helps a little.
And remember...rome wasn't built in one day.The road to rome is being patient and consistant.

[TB Jumpers]

im riding him in a jointed snaffle (full cheak and have tryed him in an egg but french link snffle too). I just rembered that the person we got him from ALWAYS rode him in a pelhum. Hes 11. I was wondering if thats why he likes a pelhum better?

[TB Jumpers]

and one other thing.

I have tryed to do cavalettis with him and HES SCARED TO DETH OF THEM! I tryed them today when i rode him. He stops them and just gets this look in his eye like "please dont make me do this." And the whites of his eyes were showing. I did not push it b/c hes one that if u make him do somthing that he dont want to do it fries his brain.

[Katsportsfreak]

Originally Posted by Just_me

What kind of snaffle are you using?Try a double jointed snaffle.

To me this sounds like a gab somewhere in his training.But I also wanted to add that some horses simply don't like snaffles.Just because the 'average'horse gets ridden in a snaffle bit,doesn't automatically make it the right bit for'every horse'.

You said maybe that is the answer right there.Force is never useful,especially not when holding the reins.
If he doesn't want to stop,turn him into a one-rein stop.You bring his head to you leg and don't let him get out until he stops.If you repeat this over and over again,you will have a responsive,sensetive horse within no time.But you need to be consistant and stop the pulling!When you teach the one rein stop to a horse,start from a walk.Under no circumstances should you introduce this technique while being in a full gallop,the horse could easily flip over by the sudden head movement(if he is not use to it).
Also,make sure that you ride properly.In no way shape or form am I saying or even questioning your riding,however alot of times a simple issue with the rider can lead to a big problem in the horse.Definitely check your own riding position.
You might also benefit from different exercises:cavalettis,transitions,ground work,lunging etc.
I would strongly recommend cavalettis or ground poles for your type of problem.Here is why:the cavalettis do not only require the focus of the horse,further more,the spacing requires the horse to take smaller strides and listen to you.
After a line of cavalettis,bring the horse to a full hold,and back it up.Then turn around and do the line again.On the other side you stop again,back up.You repeat this process a couple of times and will probably notice how the horse becomes more responsive.Throughout the exercise,focus on a consistant pace.If possible,slower than 6 mph.Post low and slow,use your seat,and try not to pull on the reins.Just do half halts.If you come to a stop,no pulling...ask for it,if he doesn't do it-one rein stop.
Never pull on two reins at the same time.If you do,you will only help the horse to bring the hindquaters more under himself and therefore give him something to push off from.

Here is a video that explains what I just wrote
YouTube - The Power of the 'One Rein Stop'

YouTube - www.horseproblems.com.au - Training the Horse to Stand

Hope this helps a little.
And remember...rome wasn't built in one day.The road to rome is being patient and consistant.

Wow thanks for the video's I never knew the proper technique for the one rein stop before that was super helpful