[LateralFlexion]

He looks a bit ewe necked, so I doubt he is rounding his back and working from behind. Also, when was the last time his teeth were floated?

Race horses are not taught to round their backs or flex at the poll, so unless someone else taught this horse how to do it, he isn't going to do it.

[FutureVetGirl]

OK. Thanks.

Maybe he's not really "working from behind" like I thought he was. But he does get his strength and forward motion from his back legs... so I might be a tad bit confused.

And yeah... he most definately doesn't flex at the poll. But I have no idea how to relax him enough to get him to do it, because he does it in his stall and when he's out in the field... *shrugs*

And thanks Beanie for the feed tips. I am unfortunately not in control over what he eats. I know that he has a bucket (unsure of the exact weight... I think about a kilo or two) of oats every day, mixed with carrots and apples. All of the horses get that. He also gets (in total) about one full square bale of hay a day. He doesn't have turnout very often (usually once a week, or when nobody is there to ride them), so I'm kind of surprised that he doesn't have more energy. And by mulish... though I believe now that it is caused mainly by an ill-fitted saddle, he's just lazy by nature... and though he GOES... he doesn't like to.

[lvmypnt]

Originally Posted by FutureVetGirl

OK. Thanks.

Maybe he's not really "working from behind" like I thought he was. But he does get his strength and forward motion from his back legs... so I might be a tad bit confused.

And yeah... he most definately doesn't flex at the poll. But I have no idea how to relax him enough to get him to do it, because he does it in his stall and when he's out in the field... *shrugs*

And thanks Beanie for the feed tips. I am unfortunately not in control over what he eats. I know that he has a bucket (unsure of the exact weight... I think about a kilo or two) of oats every day, mixed with carrots and apples. All of the horses get that. He also gets (in total) about one full square bale of hay a day. He doesn't have turnout very often (usually once a week, or when nobody is there to ride them), so I'm kind of surprised that he doesn't have more energy. And by mulish... though I believe now that it is caused mainly by an ill-fitted saddle, he's just lazy by nature... and though he GOES... he doesn't like to.

Not to offend, but some one needs to talk to his owner about proper horse nutrition.

[FutureVetGirl]

Maybe. But it's kind of hard when the only "complete" mixes and stuff that you can get here are either for goats, cows, or sheep.

Horse feeds just do not exist. And funds don't exist either.

I do agree with what you are saying, but you also have to see it from how the guy is seeing it.

[JBandRio]

Originally Posted by FutureVetGirl

Maybe he's not really "working from behind" like I thought he was. But he does get his strength and forward motion from his back legs... so I might be a tad bit confused.

By nature a horse at least partly pushes himself along from behind - he can't do it all by pulling with the front. It's very easy to think that a horse who is powering around either in the pasture or under saddle is engaged and properly working from behind. He can be powerful with a hollow back and high head.

And yeah... he most definately doesn't flex at the poll.

Then he's definitely not lifting his back or working properly from behind.

But I have no idea how to relax him enough to get him to do it, because he does it in his stall and when he's out in the field... *shrugs*

I know you are not terribly experienced as a rider aside from simply having hours in the saddle, so the questions you are asking are very difficult to answer on a forum like this You have to supple a horse, often front to back, before you can ride him from back to front/leg to hand. You start working on this suppleness from the ground. Asking and rewarding small tries. That's what riding/horsemanship is all about.

And thanks Beanie for the feed tips. I am unfortunately not in control over what he eats. I know that he has a bucket (unsure of the exact weight... I think about a kilo or two) of oats every day, mixed with carrots and apples. All of the horses get that. He also gets (in total) about one full square bale of hay a day. He doesn't have turnout very often (usually once a week, or when nobody is there to ride them), so I'm kind of surprised that he doesn't have more energy. And by mulish... though I believe now that it is caused mainly by an ill-fitted saddle, he's just lazy by nature... and though he GOES... he doesn't like to.

He obviously isn't getting the best diet, so his "mule-ish" tendencies are very likely related to his diet. If you can't change that, it's not fair to be asking any demanding work of him. He can only give what he has the fuel to do. If a car is running out of gas, it doesn't go.

[Circle C]

Some topline building exercise ideas would be helpful to the OP maybe?

[AllAroundRdr]

It's difficult to build a topline consisting of muscle when the animal isn't receiving enough calories (let alone proper benificial nutrition) to build muscle let alone have the stamina to work and use himself.

Asking an underweight horse to use himself and burn more calories than he has to lose isn't fair to the animal nor will you get the results you're looking for.


Unfortunately, based off the information provided I think it's somewhat a catch 22.

Originally Posted by Circle C

Some topline building exercise ideas would be helpful to the OP maybe?

[JBandRio]

Helpful for sure. Unfortunately, the situation makes it difficult. The saddle likely doesn't fit, the diet is likely an issue with energy, FVG is an inexperienced rider, and the horse isn't hers Not understanding how to ride into contact, not understanding how, or being able to get the horse to go, makes any exercise suggestion of transitions or serpentines or leg yield or shoulder in or anything like that, difficult at best.

I feel for FVG - she doesn't seem to have anyone who cares and is knowledgeable enough to want to or be able to help her

I personally would rather try to figure out the saddle fit issue (which she's working on ), see if the diet can be addressed, and get some idea of what this pair looks like when riding, THEN try to make specific suggestions. There are entire books written on how to start a horse properly so that he's accepting contact and bending his hind joints and lifting his back and is being ridden properly, which is how toplines are built. Barriers to the overall development, assuming the horse is healthy and the tack fits properly, are generally related to the horse being crooked. Determining what is crooked, and knowing what to do to help straighten, is a lifelong goal of riders.

Here's my first specific suggestion Get the book by Michael Schaeffer - Right from the Start. He discusses how to build the very very basic building blocks for the horse to learn to go forward into contact and how to move shoulders and hind end independently.

The second book I'd recommend is Andrew McClain's The Truth About Horses. He goes into more detail on how to progress from the start, while in the saddle. It's a very basic book on teaching contact, stopping, steering and relaxation at all 3 gaits.

[Circle C]

Originally Posted by AllAroundRdr

It's difficult to build a topline consisting of muscle when the animal isn't receiving enough calories (let alone proper benificial nutrition) to build muscle let alone have the stamina to work and use himself.

Asking an underweight horse to use himself and burn more calories than he has to lose isn't fair to the animal nor will you get the results you're looking for.


Unfortunately, based off the information provided I think it's somewhat a catch 22.

Originally Posted by JBandRio

Helpful for sure. Unfortunately, the situation makes it difficult. The saddle likely doesn't fit, the diet is likely an issue with energy, FVG is an inexperienced rider, and the horse isn't hers Not understanding how to ride into contact, not understanding how, or being able to get the horse to go, makes any exercise suggestion of transitions or serpentines or leg yield or shoulder in or anything like that, difficult at best.

I feel for FVG - she doesn't seem to have anyone who cares and is knowledgeable enough to want to or be able to help her

I personally would rather try to figure out the saddle fit issue (which she's working on ), see if the diet can be addressed, and get some idea of what this pair looks like when riding, THEN try to make specific suggestions. There are entire books written on how to start a horse properly so that he's accepting contact and bending his hind joints and lifting his back and is being ridden properly, which is how toplines are built. Barriers to the overall development, assuming the horse is healthy and the tack fits properly, are generally related to the horse being crooked. Determining what is crooked, and knowing what to do to help straighten, is a lifelong goal of riders.

Here's my first specific suggestion Get the book by Michael Schaeffer - Right from the Start. He discusses how to build the very very basic building blocks for the horse to learn to go forward into contact and how to move shoulders and hind end independently.

The second book I'd recommend is Andrew McClain's The Truth About Horses. He goes into more detail on how to progress from the start, while in the saddle. It's a very basic book on teaching contact, stopping, steering and relaxation at all 3 gaits.

OK so... maybe I wanted them. LOL

[JBandRio]

lmao! Talk about sneak attach hijack LOLOL!!

I listed many exercises already - transitions (between and within gaits), patterns (serpentines, figure 8's, anything), hillwork, reinbacks, lateral work, all those things play an important role in building a good topline. But, each of them can be worthless, or worse, if not done properly. "Properly" means the horse is accepting contact, will seek to "chase the bit", is engaged behind and moving off your leg, is lifting his back and withers to the degree his fitness allows.

If you let the horse run around on his forehand, or back hollow, or putzing along, or his shoulder popped out, you can do those exercises 'til you're blue in the face and the topline won't develop.