[Fiera]

Originally Posted by artemiss

Registration papers only matter if you plan to participate in breed shows.

Dressage, eventing, Hunter/jumpers, gymkannah/barrels, reining, cutting, etc and any open competition don't care if the horse is registered. What matters in the horses performance.

While I agree that there is an issue of over breeding, and that most horses out there should not be allowed to have babies, I think some of you need to step out of your own experience and look at the horse world in general. A piece of paper does not make a horse.

Thank you Artemiss. I had always thought that exceptional talent was the one except to the 'no breeding unregistered mares' rule, but of course that is controversial still.

[Rumonek]

That depends. I have a mini mare that is "grade" to me, but she was registered at one time and I know both of her parents. She is undefeated in just about everything as well. I breed her to my registered Mini studs, which means her resulting foals can be registered PtHA, and NSPR. The only time that I feel a grade mare should be bred is if the foal will be able to be registered, ie a grade mare to a registered Arab= 1/2 Arabian registry. Or grade to ASB= Half Saddlebred registry.

[Mutrok]

Depends what you want to do with the foal. There are excptions to the no papers...no breed rule.

[iwovjerry]

well first of all i can't steam to tear myself away from marestare but as you said we in America already have an overpopulation of horses and so many are being sent to slaughter so why would you want to contribute to that?

[Blistering Winds]

cloning and breeding to me go hand in hand. Too many to begin with.

you can breed a well trained, winning horse and produce nada.

Seabiscuit is an example. Could run! Couldn't reproduce anything worth a darn.

Secretariate is another!!!! However his legacy is in his daughters. But then again, is it him? Or is it the combo of him and momma together that really drove those babies to the winning ring????

[Shannon]

Originally Posted by Rumonek

The only time that I feel a grade mare should be bred is if the foal will be able to be registered, ie a grade mare to a registered Arab= 1/2 Arabian registry. Or grade to ASB= Half Saddlebred registry.

Ditto. If the resulting foal can get papers from a legit registry (Half Arab, AWS, PtHA, etc) and the mare is stellar, then I am all for it.

Registration papers only matter if you plan to participate in breed shows.

Dressage, eventing, Hunter/jumpers, gymkannah/barrels, reining, cutting, etc and any open competition don't care if the horse is registered. What matters in the horses performance.

True, to the showing association it doesn't matter, but it usually does to the owner. People want papers, people want to see bloodlines, history, etc. The market is undeniably stronger for papered, pedigreed foals and horses.

[Shannon]

Originally Posted by Blistering Winds

Secretariate is another!!!! However his legacy is in his daughters. But then again, is it him? Or is it the combo of him and momma together that really drove those babies to the winning ring????

Secretariat possessed the X-Factor which causes the enlarged heart. It could not be passed down to his male offspring, only his female (the gene is attached to the Y chromosone). The resulting mares could pass it on to either male or female offspring.

[Blistering Winds]

Yes, it may get passed that way, however there is no guarantee that having the x-factor will make you the next wiinner.

His daughters couldn't run. yet they produced (by passing it on)

It is not always the "every other" generation either. We still don't have "another" secretariate...........still waiting......several "generations" from his line have hit.....

But how many 'generations' do you justify to wait before you decide that a horse is a dud in passing anything worth while?

1? 2? 3?

Lets just keep breeding any of the horses that "might" because as we saw in Scamper...one doesn't have to have squat to "make the big time". His "clone" may never produce anything. But how many of that clone's offspring will be bred? ove rand over? how many generations before that set of genes end in breeding?

[Xiphias]

I say maybe, it depends on the mare, if she has exceptional conformation, and a great show record, then by all means find a good stud, that will produce you a foal that will hopefully be as good as it's dam..

Cathy

[Fiera]

Originally Posted by iwovjerry

well first of all i can't steam to tear myself away from marestare but as you said we in America already have an overpopulation of horses and so many are being sent to slaughter so why would you want to contribute to that?

This is true, but you would not be contributing to the overpopulation of unwanted horses if you created a winner who was like his dam or sire. This, of course, is determined by chance.

You can produce a good horse by breeding two paper horses ajust like you can by breeding an unpapered yet exceptionally talented mare to an exceptional stallion, though not knowing one side's genetic history detracts from that.

If the mare is winning in the show ring and is a respected breed (simply unpapered), then producing a foal by her could be marketable, especially if the sire was well-known.

It just makes it harder to do something with the foal, however, if it isn't talented. On the other hand, me personally and the horse people I known would just as quickly pass on an unpapered unexceptional foal as a papered unexceptional foal, because when you are looking for performance, mediocrity is mediocrity.