[CJnBucksMom]

Originally Posted by deann28

That sounds about right!

$25 for two legs - most amatuers don't do a very good job at clipping. In fact most should be given a pair of rounded safety scissors and left in the craft corner. They also forget that when you go in public that you represent the trainer and it is their job to look good with well turned out riders- that is a reflection on thier barn. Why wouldn't she charge you? You asked her to do these things when you decided that you wanted her to coach you at the shows. She has wear and tear on her clippers, blades sharpening, etc. - what should she charge? This is also incentive for you to learn to do a better job so she don't have to do it and bill you! She has a business to run - 25.00 is a pretty good flat rate for her time, expertise, and materials. >>

I don't mean to be rude but as a trainer who does things for her clients your last few lines annoyed me. First off, you are correct in saying that the horses are a reflection of her training barn. If the trainer feels that the horse is not being groomed up to par then that's her choice to step in and either teach her student how to do it or do it herself. Yes, I want my clients horses to look good but I'm not going to do something to fix a mistake of theirs and then charge them for it. That's simply stupid. If they didn't ask but I do it anyway then I took it upon myself.

Supplements that you didn't ask for? Again - you asked her to help you do well at a show. Part of that is the care the horse recieves.

What the horse is fed is a clients choice. It is a trainer's responsibility to discuss what she thinks would be best for the horse WITH her client, not make the decision on her own and then charge for it. I have had quite a few horses that I've trained recently and that I board who I thought needed supplements. That was not a decision I made on my own, it was one that was discussed with the owners, the benefits presented and the decision was theirs. It is their money, not mine, to spend.


And to all of you that mentioned what how your trainers would do things for free??????!!!!?!??!??!
A.) Those aren't trainers - those are wanna-bes that are desperate to get thier feet in the door. Good or not - they are desperate for a reason. If you wanted help from a wanna be then you should have found a wanna be - but understand the results could be less than shining.
b.) Those "trainer wanna-bes" are part of the reason that people like the OP don't understand that you have to pay to play the game. If I go to the laundromat to clean my clothes I don't expect the counter clerk to supply my soap or quarters. Legitimate business practice - You charge for your time, supplies, and material!!!

Just because a trainer does things for his/her clients does not mean they are want to be's. I have trained with many trainers and seen others train with many trainers all along the various levels of competition and yes, there are some higher level trainers who will do SOME things free of charge. I'm not saying someone is going to body clip your horse for free, or haul it for free, but little things here and there are the mark of a good trainer who enjoys their work and does it because they love it. While it is a business it should also be something that is enjoyable. I don't mind doing little things for clients. Ex. I have a lady whose horse is in training, she has been for 2 months now and we are going into our third. She came out the other day and put her horses tail in a tail bag. The horse had it out by the next day. I called and asked if she'd like me to put it back in. Should I have charged for the 10 minutes out of my day that it took or by doing something like that will, when she speaks to others about me, say I'm willing to go above and beyond and therefore that will generate more business. Little things go a long way. Most of my business has come from 1 advertising but secondly from client referrals because people are happy with the services I provide. I get compensated for my time, help some people out with the little stuff and in return I gain new clients. Not a bad deal at all.

You guys also need to consider what levels you are showing and the cost involved......

JMHO - this post kind of rather ticked me off when I got into reading it.

Just makes light of the fact that too many people have problems separating horse business from horse hobby. Trainers don't enjoy following you around - they enjoy winning, they possibly enjoy thier own horses, but clients are work.

You're right, clients are work but it can also be enjoyable work. I do enjoy going with students and clients on various outings that are horse related, going to shows etc. While for most things I am compensated for my time I don't ask for payment for all of them. The trainers who enjoy their work are apparent through the way their clients speak of them, the times they refer them, the repeat business and the horses and riders they produce.

[andiiloveyou624]

horses are VERYY expensive...that pretty normal..the price i mean....

[nrhareiner]

Originally Posted by CJnBucksMom

You're right, clients are work but it can also be enjoyable work. I do enjoy going with students and clients on various outings that are horse related, going to shows etc. While for most things I am compensated for my time I don't ask for payment for all of them. The trainers who enjoy their work are apparent through the way their clients speak of them, the times they refer them, the repeat business and the horses and riders they produce.

I have to say that I agree that trainers doing things for clients is not a sing of a want a be. The training/client relationship is a give in take type of thing. Most trainers get just as much for what they do for free as the client does. My trainer does not charge me for showing my horse or show fees. Why? Believe me it is not b/c he is a want a be trainer. It is b/c he gets 50% of what he wins after expenses. I have also put several new clients in his barn from referrals. He has 2 new saddles b/c in part of what my horse has won. He can boast of winning quite a few things b/c of my horse. Now should I expect something in return for all that? It is a 2 way street that most trainers forget. It does not matter how good of a trainer you are if you do not have good horses to train you are not going to win. If you can not win you are not going to get good horses. So at some point someone has to take a chance and it is always the owners. I think trainers sometimes forgets that. Same way if you have Non Pros. If they are felling like you are changing too much they will go elsewhere and you will not have the non pros winning and you will not get more b/c you do not have any non pros winning. Again 2 way street.

[CJnBucksMom]

Originally Posted by nrhareiner

I have to say that I agree that trainers doing things for clients is not a sing of a want a be. The training/client relationship is a give in take type of thing. Most trainers get just as much for what they do for free as the client does. My trainer does not charge me for showing my horse or show fees. Why? Believe me it is not b/c he is a want a be trainer. It is b/c he gets 50% of what he wins after expenses. I have also put several new clients in his barn from referrals. He has 2 new saddles b/c in part of what my horse has won. He can boast of winning quite a few things b/c of my horse. Now should I expect something in return for all that? It is a 2 way street that most trainers forget. It does not matter how good of a trainer you are if you do not have good horses to train you are not going to win. If you can not win you are not going to get good horses. So at some point someone has to take a chance and it is always the owners. I think trainers sometimes forgets that. Same way if you have Non Pros. If they are felling like you are changing too much they will go elsewhere and you will not have the non pros winning and you will not get more b/c you do not have any non pros winning. Again 2 way street.

Absolutely well said. That IS the way of the horse owner/trainer relationship.

[murdoch]

It depends.

For a small barn and a local schooling level show with a trainer that does a couple shows a year it is outrageous.

For a trainer who takes many horses on the road for a good deal of the year it's cheap. With this type of barn they usually expect all horses that show with them to be in their program (including clipping, feed, supplements etc). For one they don't have the time to deal with each clients specific instructions - they will adapt to what the individual horse needs but you are paying for their program - not just the riding and your horse represents their business.

Definitely not for everyone and there are also definitely people who do the big shows by themselves or by just meeting up with a trainer for coaching at the show, but they tend to be very experienced amateurs.

[Huntseat]

That does sound about right. I had the experience of working for/with a hunter/jumper trainer, and you would not BELIEVE some of the costs that come up that you would never think of. It is expensive, and although it might not seem fair or right to have to pay that much to train/board/show with somebody, the clients are the ones who keep trainers in business. If her prices don't work for you, then you need to find somebody else to train with. Chance are good that you will NOT get the same services that you do with this trainer, but if you can't afford it, it's what you've gotta do.

Bills like that are the reason I show on my own. We don't have a truck, so apart from hauling (I do travel with a Big Name Trainer and stable with her at the Arab shows), which is about $200, all of the fees are mine to deal with. I do my own grooming, pay for my own stalls and other show fees, bring my own feed, and I don't particularly like a trainer breathing down my back at shows, so I certainly wouldn't pay for one to do that.

[Fox Glove]

Being from the area, and knowing who the big winning barns, trainers and owners are, and knowing that this woman hardly falls into that catagory...Yes, that is high for her IMVHO. She is not setting the pond on fire, nor are any of her students, at any rated shows in or around the area.

She does list her prices, and you did agree to her terms the day your horse entered the barn, pay her, and count it an expensive lesson learned .She can charge whatever she pleases, is she worth it? she seems to thinks so.

Just for giggles, what show was this?

I am sorry this thread has that beat down feeling to it, but, next time you are going to send your horse to ANYONE, do your research, horse people love to talk...

This from her website..

She also trained with Chuck Waters, Hubert Rohrer and several other trainers in Western PA over the years.

Would have told me all I needed to know, Hubert has been dead for well over twenty-five years, had a farm in Mars,and was a small time dressage trainer.

As for the other trainer, not someone I would posting on my resume.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?ni...g=3455,6382867

http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.c...4483/index.htm

Nasty bussiness, too many have forgotten.


A look at the scrap book ,on the site, gave me a great deal of insite as well.

SW PA does have a wonderful BNT who has ridden as a student of GM, and does indeed turn out Big A winning students and horses, even for her in this part of the Country, depending on the show, this would be a little high.

Prices are what the market will bear, seems she is getting this, she must have one heck of a rig.

[Smartee Pants]

[quote=nrhareiner;3916038]My questions is was you/your horse in training the 2 weeks it was there or where you just boarding? If you where paying for training lessons should have been included. I never pay extra for lessons when my horse is in training.

When my horse was in training I paid extra for lessons. They were being paid for his training and when I came to ride I was paying for a lesson. To me that was two different things - I still wanted him trained on those days.

Debbie

[Kissitgoodbye]

In any case, if you are not happy with her, you need to go talk to her. From her business point, she should be able to give you valuable proof on why everything costs so much.

Its disappointing to see she doesn't list out of what everything costs. Like maybe like AN ACTUAL BILL would do.

I am sorry girlie this was so shocking to you... I think you are doing a fantastic job of handling it.

[nrhareiner]

Originally Posted by Smartee Pants

When my horse was in training I paid extra for lessons. They were being paid for his training and when I came to ride I was paying for a lesson. To me that was two different things - I still wanted him trained on those days.

Debbie

I have used many different trainers and talked to even more about training and everyone with one exception 1 lesson a week was included in the training. Does no good for them to train your horse if you can not ride it and show it. They know this so it is only a benefit to them to give you lessons on your horse. So no I would not pay extra unless I wanted several lessons every week. If it was not included I would keep looking.