[Dawn]

Ummm....am I reading this right? Because if I am, it's 100% false. Perhaps well intentioned, but a load of bologna.

First off, protein is not an energy source, but is used to grow and repair muscle tissue. That means it won’t provide calories, but instead provides the building blocks for growth in young horses and for muscle and tissue repair in exercising horses.

I'll bet anyone $1 Million that the above statement is false. Please pm me for payment arrangements.

[Xiphias]

I went from a 12% sweet feed, and beet pulp, to Purina seinor, and ultimate finish 25...my mare did not get hyper from the additional protien, but she did gain weight, and grew a much healthier hoof, in the last 2 years, that she has been on this diet...my "Trimmer" says she has the best feet she's seen on a tb, and she don't look her age either..Cathy

[JBandRio]

Protein DOES contain calories, and DOES provide energy. However, it's a really poor source of energy. Really poor.

NO horse needs a "high protein diet", though some portions of the diet may need to be higher to compensate for too-low protein elsewhere. This is why a product like Triple Crown 30 (30% protein) exists - to add more, quality protein to a generally low, and lower quality, protein grass hay diet.

[Dawn]

Protein is the 'hardest' calories for the body to utilize. In other words, it takes more work to turn them into something useful than fat or carbs. But they do still provide the same amount of calories as carbs. The body will just burn slightly more calories utilizing the protein.

[Blistering Winds]

It is not a readily accessable energy source, nor utilized very well. The amount it does provide is very poor, let alone insignificant, so it is not categorized as an "energy source" and is treated as such in many livestock areas, including horse nutrition. (according to Dr. Baker and Dr. Brown at WTAMU...one horse nutrition professor, other cattle/ruminent nutrition, as well as Dr. Cole at USDA-ARS, Animal Scientist with a background in animal nutrition.)

It is energy used in metabolism, cell regrowth, etc. But to utilize it for the "home stretch" in barrel racing, it is useless unless you deprive your horse of all other sources, and then you are just tearing your horse to pieces.

http://instruct1.cit.cornell.edu/Cou...1/Protein.html

http://www.fao.org/docrep/007/y5019e/y5019e06.htm


It is not "efficient" enough to do much....

Protein is used as an energy source only if
carbohydrates, fats and fiber are deficient or if there
is excess protein in the diet. The utilization of protein
for energy releases more heat, than an equal amount
of sugar, fat or volatile fatty acids. It also generates
ammonia which must then be excreted as urea in the
urine. This may cause a relative increase in sweating
and urinary water losses, contributing to dehydration
and increased risk of tying up. www.ca.uky.edu/horsequest/fs752_conditioning.pdf

and you still run into, you need to utilize it immediately if you do plan on using it as an energy source, before the body processes it out as "unnecessary". Again, too expensive, too inefficient to be considered as a viable energy source.

So in many "schools of thought", it is not labeled as an energy source because of those facts.

I don't see why it is that big of a deal to keep it labeled as a non-energy source to dispell the thought process that "more protein" will fix their horse's energy issues. When it won't.

Lots and lots of research is out there to disprove the Protein makes a significant contribution to be considered an energy related source. Many nutrients we feed have some caloric form. But we don't count them as "energy sources" because they are not significant nor smart to feed in large amounts to even begin to make a difference.

http://www1.agric.gov.ab.ca/$department/deptdocs.nsf/all/hrs3243

Protein

Protein is probably the most misunderstood component of a horse's diet. It was long assumed that protein was an energy source for the body, however research has indicated that protein is a poor energy source, but essential to the growth and repair of body tissues.
When a horse ingests protein, it is broken up in the digestive tract into individual amino acids which can then be absorbed through the wall of the small intestine into the bloodstream. From there, they travel to the sites where they are most needed for growth or repair of tissues.
Young horses who do not receive adequate amounts of protein can suffer a number of ill effects, including decreased growth and muscle development, reduced appetite, body tissue loss, slow hoof growth, and poor hair coat. However, for adult horses, true protein deficiencies are quite rare and usually occur only when a horse is on very poor pasture or hay with no other supplemental feed for a prolonged period of time. With a corrected diet, most of the signs of protein deficiency in adult horses can be turned around in a short time. The damage done to a young, growing horse, however, can be more serious. Once the muscles have developed, a lack of protein can cause the muscles to decrease in size. This is caused by a loss of cell content even if the cell remains intact. Thus, in the developed horse, the cell content can be replaced by a good feeding program. In the young horse a lack of sufficient protein will inhibit the development of cells. If these cells have not developed, they can never be repaired. The result of protein deficiency in a young horse is not reversible.
The amount of crude protein required in a diet depends on the needs of the individual horse. Remember, a growing horse requires more protein in their diet. Among the protein supplements, wheat bran is best because of its bulky nature and laxative effect. If you think you may need to add proteins to your horse's diet, talk with your equine veterinarian about your horse's needs and sources of high-quality protein supplements. Not checking with your veterinarian can be a costly mistake. Prairie hay is a very good source of protein as is alfalfa, but alfalfa is also high in calcium. This must be balanced in the horse's diet.
The protein content of western grasses and eastern grasses are very different. There is empirical evidence that in some species, western grasses have more protein than similar appearing grasses grown in the east
http://www.candlewoodequine.com/?p=85

because it is insignificant as an energy source, it should continue to not be considered one just like vitamins and minerals are not considered as energy sources for similar reasons....insignificant.

[Blistering Winds]

Then, when you dive into deeper research articles, the protein we feed must be converted FIRST before the horse can utilize it as an energy source because the N has to be in ammonia form. Now, if you want to feed your horse urea sources, it is readily available for their use. But not many horse feeds these days are utilizing those sources of N anymore. So not only do you have to provide the "right" kind of protein, if not, you have to hope your horse's body converts enough of the protein to ammonia so it can be utilized by the body, therefor setting your horse up for other possible complications, IF the body even does it (by forcing it to by not having any other sources of energy).....

and it has to be available at certain stages of the GI tract, and from what I'm reading and have gathered as of late, much of the "converted by the non-ruminant" animal has passed the time of absorption and utilization, and has already been "discarded" as it is past the absorption points. So unless you are willing to put the RIGHT kind at the beginning, feeding what current horse feeds have in them is mostly useless and again, peed right out, wasting hard earned money in doing so.

[Dawn]

There is a huge difference between the term 'non-energy source' as it's used in the above articles than 'no calories'.

Proteins and fats are burned and utilized much differently than carbs are. But that does not mean that either do not contain calories.

Proteins are broken down in the body to produce both carbs and fats. So if you're feeding protein, that doesn't mean that some of it might not become that 'fuel to the finish line' or the extra layer of fat over the ribs.

The majority of course does go to cell regeneration (assuming amino acids are present).

Now, as far as the body burning 'protein' for fuel only after other sources have been exhausted? That's very true. But it's talking about actual protein in the body, not in the diet. It's referring to the body eating its own muscle to survive. The whole principle that the Atkins diet works on. If you don't provide the body with sufficient carbs to maintain the basal metabolism, then it will turn to other sources to get that (fat reserves and ultimately protein reserves, ultimately resulting in ketosis).

I'm all for making valid points, but I do not support using misinformation and skewing correct information in order to do it. How is this misinformation any better than the misinformation that protein makes a horse hot? Why not explain the differences in the way that the different nutrients are metabolized that causes 'hotness' instead?

[Blistering Winds]

Originally Posted by Dawn

There is a huge difference between the term 'non-energy source' as it's used in the above articles than 'no calories'.

Proteins and fats are burned and utilized much differently than carbs are. But that does not mean that either do not contain calories.

Proteins are broken down in the body to produce both carbs and fats. So if you're feeding protein, that doesn't mean that some of it might not become that 'fuel to the finish line' or the extra layer of fat over the ribs.

The majority of course does go to cell regeneration (assuming amino acids are present).

I'm all for making valid points, but I do not support using misinformation and skewing correct information in order to do it. How is this misinformation any better than the misinformation that protein makes a horse hot? Why not explain the differences in the way that the different nutrients are metabolized that causes 'hotness' instead?

ok, I see the point you are trying to make now.

however to many laypersons, you practically DO have to explain it with a twisted way for them to understand the concepts at times. Sad, but true. They just don't get it, nor want to take the time to learn. So sometimes it is best just to say, it has no calories for the horse's energy. (which some take as having no calories).

And the quoted person may have been miss quoted and/or not finished. Protein does not provide calories directly. It would be more interesting to see the full report/papers that those people were reporting on.

I'll see if I can pull some of their research articles that they may have done from the library of congress when I go to work tomorrow. I have to do some research on cattle synthesis as well, been kind of paralleling some of it with equine too.

[sorrell]

Originally Posted by Dawn

Ummm....am I reading this right? Because if I am, it's 100% false. Perhaps well intentioned, but a load of bologna.



I'll bet anyone $1 Million that the above statement is false. Please pm me for payment arrangements.

I think this was a statement based on fats, carbs and sugars being the three main energy sources.

If I remember what I learned in nutrition class, things like proteins, vitamins, etc. are not classed as energy sources, even though they are essential to the body.

[Dawn]

Carbs are sugars.

The three main energy sources (okay the only 3 energy sources) are fats, proteins, and carbs (which include sugars).