[equestriandynam]

what bit is that?

[Buckshot]

That is good work on both the rider and the horses part! Sometimes a horse just needs someone to get on him that will make him use his body correctly.

It's great that his regular rider is learning how to be a rider too--not just a passenger!

[Chester]

2manypetz I would love to help you but I have never ridden a horse with one of those bits. I did ride once in a western saddle and nearly fell out of it real fast. I do not give advice on subjects that I know nothing about and western is one of those things.

As you have asked me though I will give it a bit of a go. It looks to me like your horse has spent a long time stargazing. The best and safest advice I could give you is to do circles as your instructor has said, serpentines and leg yielding. Getting the horse to make the circles larger and smaller using leg. You could also try some trotting poles. This will get him thinking and looking where he is placing his feet. Very hard to look where you are going when checking for ufo's.

It will happen eventually with the right training and riding. Unfortunately I am not the person to ask on western riding. Sorry.

[equestriandynam]

Originally Posted by 2manypetz

This trainer says that she has found out that the dam has a genetic thing where there is a flap that goes down in their throat that closes off breathing. He does make a little pig grunt noise when his head is nice. Some people that have these horses actually have surgery on them to cut the flap out, becasue of this and not wanting to have their head "nice" I really dont want or think we will do this,

I would get him checked by a vet first to see if he has this 'flap' problem. If in fact he does and it actually restricts and cuts off his breathing this may be why he is so reluctant to give his head. (wouldnt you be reluctant too if it disabled your breathing?)
Any horse can be taught to carry himself and get a nice headset, as long as there isnt a medical issue that prohibits them. In his case he might have one.

[2manypetz]

Ok, We will have her keep working on the circling and and the leg, and poles. Dang ufo's, i knew they would be a problem....LOL We will see what he does when he goes back to the english riding, next week.

[2manypetz]

Yes, now that she told me about that, I do think I will have him checked. He is such a sweet willing horse and has come a long ways.

[madvoice]

Originally Posted by equestriandynam

just travel with me here. you kept the horse in that frame for an hour when its very likely he never even knew what the frame was or been in it with a rider on his back. right?
An upside-down horse doesnt use the muscles it needs to engage their HQ's and support their back. Right?
Now look at a set of underworked flabby arms, like mine. *jiggles arm*
These are underused muscles. I can pick up books, and laundry, and logs, and standards.. But ask me to do 50 push ups.. that wouldnt go over too well. My muscles that once allowed me to do that are no longer able to because over time i have not had to do a push up in a while.. so my muscles of course are smaller and weaker. Ask me to do 10 push ups, i will. Ask me to do 10 a night and i can. And eventually i will be able to do 50.
Its simple. 50 pushups right now is called 'overworking' i would be sore in the morning and i wouldnt like the practice too much after that. 10 pushups is maxing out, waking up in the morning limber and ready for progress.
Which do you want the horse to be?
By all means keep the horses head down, but if he needs to learn the basics and build muscle before going Grand prix for an hour thats not an 'outrageous' idea at all is it??

Obviously you cannot tell the difference between the top and bottom rider. The colours of their clothes should easily give it away. Also to that the top rider is wearing a vest and the other rider is much older and isn't wearing a vest.

The top rider IS a better rider than the other rider. That is what the photos are trying to show. It is a compare/contrast which is totally different to what you're trying to make it out to be.

I really don't know how you can possibly get out of half a dozen photos that this horse has been ridden in this manner for an hour. The hour lesson could be just getting the horse to listen (for the 2nd rider) and teach the 2nd rider how to ride correctly and therefore getting some acceptance of the horse in comparison to the initial photos taken of the 2nd rider. You don't even know if the horse had a break in that hour. You didn't ask. You just assumed. We should all know what the word assume means.

I think you really need to go back to the original post and take a long and hard look. You obviously like to read between lines and put in sentences, if not paragraphs of useless rubbish of your own.

I've yet to see a comment made by you that isn't negative. There is constructive criticism and then there's destructive criticism. I'll leave you to figure out where yours lies.

[John]

Originally Posted by equestriandynam

never said anything about pain. i am not saying indefinately this is whats going on. but its very likely.
I like how if i look at all the pictures posted, the more time that has elapsed in his new collected frame the higher his tail went. In the two that have him with his head out, the tail is pretty much all the way down.
I am not against collection, but i do believe it can be difficult for the horse, and its a proven fact. When you take an upside-down horse and ask him to carry himself for a solid hour out of nowhere, its not farfetched to think 'maybe you are overworking him'

I am willing to bet that with one week of riding this horse as as he has been shown that it would be almost impossible to get him to go back to the way he was. It is much easier for him to do. A high tail is a tall tail!!!

[equestriandynam]

? i said it myself at least twice in my posts: 'These are only a few pics so i am not pointing a finger saying 'this is wrong wrong wrong!' but its something i noticed in the pictures.'

But my guess is you didnt read that part.. or this part:
'i am not saying indefinately this is whats going on. but its very likely.'

'But the op has already expressed.. whatever he expressed so this is probably off topic'

I made observations that i clearly stated could possibly be wrong.
They were simple observations. Not criticism. OP stated he did not work this horse for an hour solid. hence the last quote of mine.

[madvoice]

Ok if you're in the real world and someone says to you "I'm not pointing a finger and saying this is wrong wrong wrong" what is your immediate reaction? I'll bet my bottom dollar that you're on the defensive from it straight away. Similar could be said for other comments you've made. It could've been worded much better and questions could've been asked before making assumptions. What you have said is very critical and in quite a negative manner.