[Fox Glove]

Originally Posted by AllAroundRdr

As a rider, after the judge is done judging for the day, you CAN approach them (with complete respect) and request information on why you placed the way you did (especially if it's an open show with a single judge) in all honesty, the answer that she didn't like your horse and that's why she didn't place him IS fair enough -- she's the one with the judges card so it's her decision who places and who doesn't and a simple explaination of "I didn't like your horse" kinda says it all. We've ALL been there. We've all not placed and thought we should've, and we've all had zero explaination from a judge as to why. If you're showing smaller open type shows take advantage of having a single judge and approach them, regardless of how you placed. Keep a spiral notebook in the trailer with the date, show, judge, placings per class, and notes/remarks you get from the judge.

I keep notes of judges, class, horse I was on, score/placing, and any notes on the judges card -- I use this to determine whether or not it's worth my time/money to haul out to a single judge show if it's a judge who for some/whatever reason doesn't place me/my horse on a regular basis.

Most carded Judges have been around, and can give you a more detailed explaination of, why they did not like your horse . Any carded Judge who is going to give vauge, flippant answers to a , note my wording here, RESPECTFUL exibitor who paid for classes and stalling, is not going to be asked back to that venue. Fair is fair, and it is a job, they are not above being questioned. But, I would ask them in a manner I would like to be spoken to myself. They do deserve respect. But they also can be taken into account, and there is always the Steward.

Sometimes we feel we did better than we did. Asking a Judge why may enlighten you to a bad habit you have fallen into, that you may not even be aware of. Shows rattle our nerves, what we do at home, time after time may not look the same in the ring.

I find the smaller non-rated shows to be more political and brutal than the big rated ones. Carded Judges have a higher order to answer to.

Paula

[John]

Originally Posted by Fox Glove

Most carded Judges have been around, and can give you a more detailed explaination of, why they did not like your horse . Any carded Judge who is going to give vauge, flippant answers to a , note my wording here, RESPECTFUL exibitor who paid for classes and stalling, is not going to be asked back to that venue. Fair is fair, and it is a job, they are not above being questioned. But, I would ask them in a manner I would like to be spoken to myself. They do deserve respect. But they also can be taken into account, and there is always the Steward.

Sometimes we feel we did better than we did. Asking a Judge why may enlighten you to a bad habit you have fallen into, that you may not even be aware of. Shows rattle our nerves, what we do at home, time after time may not look the same in the ring.

I find the smaller non-rated shows to be more political and brutal than the big rated ones. Carded Judges have a higher order to answer to.

Paula

I agree with Paula. There are a few poor judges. There are a few judges that do not know as much as they might. There are lot of good ones. One place you may want to look is the rule book on exactly what the class is judged on and the weighting for each part.

[Huntseat]

That will happen for as long as you continue showing horses, unfortunately.

I went to a show once where we had FANTASTIC classes, definitely *should* have placed us, but the judge didn't like us because Melody "moves too much like an Arab."

No, REALLY?!

At the next show we went to, a rated show, we got six firsts and one second out of seven classes. I only think I honestly deserved three of those ribbons.

My point is that it all evens out in the end. We're going to have good days and bad days, and judges are going to have things that they like and those that they don't. If you or your horse fall into the "don't" category, no matter how silly it might seem, all you can do is finish your classes with a smile on your face and move on to the next show

[Sandra-A1]

I agree with HUntseat....as long as you compete in shows your going to run across a Judge whose placings you do not agree with or even understand. That is , after all, a part of the sport.

I have learned not to take my competing so seriously that I get upset or take a Judge's decision personal.
I have not placed when I thought I had a great ride and gotten a place when I knew I should have gotten the gate. You just never know how a Judge will perceive the class your riding in.
Even though there are rules for the Judge to use when doing the job it still comes down to their perception of the horse & rider's performance in the class, and yes, their opinion.

So just ride in each class you enter the best you can and try not to let showing/competing lose it's fun.
After all your going to win some and your going to lose some..... for all sorts of different reasons......many, you cannot control.

My way of looking at it is those losses make me appreciate and enjoy my wins even more!

[AllAroundRdr]

I totally agree, all I meant was regardless of the explaination, or lack there of as to why your were placed as you were, there's no changing it. And I think more exhibitors need to approach judges with questions, it only betters yourself and how you show in the future. I'm extremely fortunate that our Open Circuit shows are judged by judges who ALL have cards, most of them are mutli-carded judges and there's only 1 I won't show under. I'm not sure if I agree that the politics are worse in smaller circuits or not, regardless, they'll never go away

Originally Posted by Fox Glove

Most carded Judges have been around, and can give you a more detailed explaination of, why they did not like your horse . Any carded Judge who is going to give vauge, flippant answers to a , note my wording here, RESPECTFUL exibitor who paid for classes and stalling, is not going to be asked back to that venue. Fair is fair, and it is a job, they are not above being questioned. But, I would ask them in a manner I would like to be spoken to myself. They do deserve respect. But they also can be taken into account, and there is always the Steward.

Sometimes we feel we did better than we did. Asking a Judge why may enlighten you to a bad habit you have fallen into, that you may not even be aware of. Shows rattle our nerves, what we do at home, time after time may not look the same in the ring.

I find the smaller non-rated shows to be more political and brutal than the big rated ones. Carded Judges have a higher order to answer to.

Paula

[Fox Glove]

Originally Posted by AllAroundRdr

I totally agree, all I meant was regardless of the explaination, or lack there of as to why your were placed as you were, there's no changing it. And I think more exhibitors need to approach judges with questions, it only betters yourself and how you show in the future. I'm extremely fortunate that our Open Circuit shows are judged by judges who ALL have cards, most of them are mutli-carded judges and there's only 1 I won't show under. I'm not sure if I agree that the politics are worse in smaller circuits or not, regardless, they'll never go away

And I agree as well

Yes it should be fun as Sandra said, but I work hard to show, and it is not an inexpensive venture either.Travel,stalling, entry fee's, and what it takes to be showing at certain shows.

I have nothing but respect for a Judge, until they give me a reason not to, and I am not petty enough for that reason to be not pinning me. If I feel it was an unfair call, I will approach them with respect, but I also want the same, and an answer that makes sense to me. If there are politics involved , the show Steward and Secretary need to be aware.

It is part of our right and duty to make sure shows are run fairly, and if we see something going on, that we think is not right, we do have a right to question it, and a right to an answer. If it is a smaller one day show, hauling in and out, I may not be so pressed to question, but I should be!

I am not saying whinning about everything, but if you see unfairness or feel you have been dealt with unfairly. Speak up.

You are very lucky to have Carded Judges, I think it does make a difference, not that you can not have one or two bad ones, but like I said, they answer to a higher order.

Paula

[superhorse]

That sounds really unfair, I'd keep going to the shows though, it all practis and people will begin to notice hat the best ones don't seem to be winning. Don't let her upset you.

[AllAroundRdr]

Couldn't agree more

Originally Posted by Fox Glove

And I agree as well

Yes it should be fun as Sandra said, but I work hard to show, and it is not an inexpensive venture either.Travel,stalling, entry fee's, and what it takes to be showing at certain shows.

I have nothing but respect for a Judge, until they give me a reason not to, and I am not petty enough for that reason to be not pinning me. If I feel it was an unfair call, I will approach them with respect, but I also want the same, and an answer that makes sense to me. If there are politics involved , the show Steward and Secretary need to be aware.

It is part of our right and duty to make sure shows are run fairly, and if we see something going on, that we think is not right, we do have a right to question it, and a right to an answer. If it is a smaller one day show, hauling in and out, I may not be so pressed to question, but I should be!

I am not saying whinning about everything, but if you see unfairness or feel you have been dealt with unfairly. Speak up.

You are very lucky to have Carded Judges, I think it does make a difference, not that you can not have one or two bad ones, but like I said, they answer to a higher order.

Paula

[No1Dazy]

Unfortunately, when you show, you are paying for someone's OPINION. That's really all there is to it--riding is a very subjective sport.

I do agree with Paula that carded judges have more to answer to. This is why I love dressage--the judges comments are right there on the test you get back!

I have only ever complained to show management about the judge once--and that was NOT for the way he was placing riders. A young girl went into the arena with her jacket unbuttoned. He informed her that unless she had a disability it was unacceptable. The girl left the arena in tears. I felt he was rude and that comment was uncalled for. He could have just as easily called her over and said, young lady, don't forget to button your jacket! or Oops, you forgot something!

At every show I go to, there are people complaining about the judging. Sometimes I don't understand understand the judge's viewpoint, but I review the comments with my instructor (and as a teacher I review the comments my students receive) and decide how to act/improve on them. If everything else fails, get a video so you can see what the judge saw.

[Zippolympic]

Honestly, if I were a judge and saw a horse I didn't like, I probably wouldn't place them either. Every judge has different preferences, it's life.