[Dicey]

I've been reading alot of the the "stallion quality?" threads lately, and wondering how people feel about the other factors when choosing a stallion, like personality, jumping style, predisposition to hoof problems, etc. (sorry just naming stuff off the top of my head)

For an example, I'll use the TB stallion that I used to lease. He was bred to race, with Man O'War, War Admiral, Native Dancer, Northern Dancer, and lots of other names I don't recognize in his pedigree. Sorry I don't have any side conformation shots, but here some performance pics:









I would describe his conformation as having an almost too short back, nice long legs, powerful hindquarters, a totally upside-down neck where it ties into his withers, and being kind of thick through the chest & shoulders. He has a crappy, short-strided trot and a tendency to travel very "downhill", but holy cow can he run. And his bad movement didn't even stop us from competing very successfully in eventing.

Based on his confo and his trot, a lot of people turn their noses up at him. Which is fine, to each their own.

But would it change anyone's mind to know that he is the sweetest, gentlest stallion I have ever met. He can be ridden in a mixed-gender group of horses on the trail, near a mare in heat, at a show in close quarters with any horse, by children, and in competition safely. He doesn't spook, shy, throw fits or get hyper. He's calm and lazy and a total gentleman. We only pasture breed him, and if the mare doesn't want to be bred right then, I swear to goodness, he will just politely leave her alone until another time.

AND, he passes his disposition on to probably 95% of his foals. His confo is kind of a toss-up when passing on to foals - they all look like him, but very few of them move like him.

I'm kind of rambling at this point, but I'm interested in seeing if anyone is willing to breed to a maybe less-than-ideally built stallion with his head screwed on right? Or is it all about their build and performance when you pick out a stallion?

[AtomicPenny]

A beautifully built horse with an amazing pedigree means absolutely nothing if you hate to be around him and work with him or if he doesn't give a hoot about doing anything. I would take a horse with a sweet, "what are we going to do now" attitude but that conformationally may not be great over the prior. The horse that you enjoy riding and working with is going to take you further than the one that may have all the talent in the world but you never want to work with. So to answer your question, yes, if my mare had the qualities to balance out any conformational faults the stallion may have I definately look at temperment as a slightly more important factor.

Karen

[Kissitgoodbye]

I rather buy personality if was going to be a nice easy going horse. A horse that I didn't plan on competiting with but just for pleasure.

I think it would be a 50/50 change if you wanted a good personality out of a mean stallion. The mare's side could easily dominate. It goes both ways though I guess.

[Top Dun]

I will overlook SOME conformational faults if the stallion has BOTH a good performance record AND excellent temperment. If the mare I have is excellent in the faults the stallion had I'd be inclined to breed the mare to him. for example, I'm looking at a stallion right now that I don't like his feet. He's a National champion Roping horse (ApHC) and his temperment is Exceptional. My mare's feet are really good so I'm overlooking his feet issues in considering him to breed to my mare.

[prairienights]

I do not breed, but if ever I do, I will look over some conformational flaws depending on what I'd want the foal for and which conformational flaws we're dealing with.

*Anything* that jeopardizes soundness or health I'll say pass on. So a stallion can have an amazing personality, but I couldn't look past really crooked legs or weak pasterns or anything like that. Thinks like a weaker hip or straighter-than-I'd-like shoulder can be forgiven as long as my mare could attempt to balance it out and it would still depend on what I'd use the foal for. Different disciplines can of course be more leniant on conformational flaws while others need a horse with a super hip for strength or something.

But, since I don't show, I don't plan on breeding. I'm happy with getting horses that are already on the ground :P

[Toby&Arie]

Generally not. I think people tend to look more towards the stallion to fix their mare than the other way around. Crossing a horse of average conformation with another horse of average conformation is not going to outdo the parents, which is the objective. Plus, the mares which have great confo and great performance are going to look to breed up not down.

For me, a stallion would have to have phenomenal talent to risk substandard confo, and the mare would have to be entirely correct in that department. Breeding is a huge gamble/liability on its best day- I would rather wait to find a stud that compliments my mare and extraordinary temperament is not enough to sell me.

[Equine Repro]

Originally Posted by Dicey

But would it change anyone's mind to know that he is the sweetest, gentlest stallion I have ever met.

Form follows function. You can have the most beautifully conformed horse, but if he/she doesn't have the temperament for the work/job you wish to use the horse for, it really doesn't matter. However, flip side of that is there are LOTS of truly spectacular stallions out there that "are" beautifully conformed and have a phenomenal temperament, to boot.

As there are just sooooo many horses out there that are just mediocre, I've reached the point that not only does the horse have to have a phenomenal temperament, phenomenal conformation and phenomenal work ethic, he has to be proven in performance and show that he consistently produces.

I'm kind of rambling at this point, but I'm interested in seeing if anyone is willing to breed to a maybe less-than-ideally built stallion with his head screwed on right? Or is it all about their build and performance when you pick out a stallion?

Both. Choosing to breed to anything less is doing a disservice to the mare, the stallion and the industry. Remove the emotions from the equation and make a decision based on what is best for all parties <smile>. It can be REALLY tough to do especially if you're in love with the animals involved. But, in the long run, it will usually prove to be the best course of action.

Good luck with whatever you decide!

Kathy St.Martin
Equine Reproduction Short Courses
http://www.equine-reproduction.com

[Dicey]

Thanks for all the replies! It's just really interesting for me to hear from different people on this. I know I'm a little (ok, a lot) biased on this stud because I loved riding him so much.

This:

Originally Posted by Toby&Arie

I think people tend to look more towards the stallion to fix their mare than the other way around.

really made me sit and think. Because yeah, this is exactly what people are looking for in a stallion. It's interesting being on the other side of the fence, being friends with his owner while she is looking for mares to add to her herd that will improve his legacy.

And Equine Repro, I agree with everything you said, especially about not just producing more mediocre horses and removing emotion from the decision. If he had been my foal, I probably would have gelded him just because of his neck. I'm lucky his owner didn't, because one of his sons is my up-and-coming prospect (who was an accident and lucked out with his mom's confo), but even as much as I love this stallion, if I breed another horse for myself, it will definitely be to a much higher quality stud. And like you said, I'll probably be able to find one with just as nice a personality, too.

[bay_blnd jmpr07]

Luckily for me I have a breeder's guide for the registry/breed I am involved with and breed to.

It has stallion ads and also the stallions' scores from their Stallion Testing. So I can just look at the scores, see which ones are more appealing with higher scores (include gaits, jumping, willingness, temperment) and then go and search those stallions and see which ones really appeal to my eye and which ones I think would cross well with my mare.

And luckily, all stallions I look at are approved for breeding so they passed their Test and are all good candidats. It's all just a matter of which one do I like best and works with my mare best.

[trotplease]

If it going to be bred, be it mare or stallion I expect it to have close to ideal conformation, a strong performance record (especially in a stallion) and a great temperament. If any of the pieces of the puzzle are missing, I don't want to breed to it.

Like Bay Blind, I am involved with Warmbloods, so we do have a great deal of reference information available that other breed groups do not. The 100 day stallion test results give very good insight into trainability, temperament and inherent athleticism. Too bad other breeds don't invest in this kind of process instead of just allowing any horses to breed.