[Spotted Mustang]

I was not sure if this was the right place to put this. It has to do with stallions so I thought Breeding was appropriate, but it has to do with training so Training could be correct.

If this is not correct, could a mod please move this thread to the proper section? Thank you.

I have read often that it is important to teach a stallion the difference between 'work time' and 'breeding time'.

My question is, for those of you who have (or have had) stallions, how do you let them know the difference? What do you do so your stallion knows if he is being handled for breeding/collecting versus just being taken out to groom/ride/train?

[County]

Biggest thing for me is I use certain tack for breeding. For example I have one halter and lead thats never used on a stallion except when hes going to breed. Each stallion has his own breeding halter and lead. Its never used on any other horse or on him for any other reason. I also always put a chain over their muzzle and I carry a whip. Its very rare I've ever needed to use either on trained stallions but they know I can and will so theres just no wondering about if they can get away with anything.

I also breed at the same time each day ( 5:30 A.M. ) and have the exact same routine going to and from where ever the mare or mount is at. Doesn't take long and they know whats going on as soon as they see what tack you have and what time it is.

[Xiphias]

Originally Posted by County

Biggest thing for me is I use certain tack for breeding. For example I have one halter and lead thats never used on a stallion except when hes going to breed. Each stallion has his own breeding halter and lead. Its never used on any other horse or on him for any other reason. I also always put a chain over their muzzle and I carry a whip. Its very rare I've ever needed to use either on trained stallions but they know I can and will so theres just no wondering about if they can get away with anything.

I also breed at the same time each day ( 5:30 A.M. ) and have the exact same routine going to and from where ever the mare or mount is at. Doesn't take long and they know whats going on as soon as they see what tack you have and what time it is.

I agree....

I remember helping my cousin breed her arab stallion...and his first que was we led the mare outside his stall to tease her....if she was receptive...then she got tail wrapped and washed....we washed him, put on his "special" halter, the mare was led to the breeding shed....and then we took him to the breeding shed....the only time the stud was taken into the breeding shed was to breed....it was never used for excersize, or anything eise....

He was a perfect gentleman to breed....and a most gentle horse to ride....

Cathy

[Haas Horse Farm]

If you do not have experience with stallions go help at a stallion station or a breeding barn. Breeding is not something that should be done by a novice. Being a novice can hurt everyone involved. The biggest problem is not knowing when to get after the stallion and when to let him be all boy. Mare management is also a very big issue. I can tell you a whole bunch of mean mare stories. In standing heat but kicking the heck out of the stallion. Not being infatuated with the right male so you have to have one on the nose and one on the tail.

Also many stallions start at the wrong end of the mare. It is important to be sure to scotch hobble the mare for safety.... BUT breeding hobbles will cause a serious wreck and do not work.

I am too tired now but later I will post more points. Before you ever consider breeding with any stallion you better be sure you have all the right tools and have really taught him to be respectful on the ground. Manners go out the window when you ad a mare in heat to the picture. (If you want to know search posts by Aussiesnaps and you can read where she had to get the heck out of the way because her oh so nice boy become a ferocious stallion. )

[dotgotcalm]

I agree with whats already been said. A special halter and a very specific routine that differs from what you'd do if you were taking him out for anything else. For me it's going from his stall or turnout directly to the wash rack to clean his boy bits that's the big cue that it's breeding time and not riding time.

I don't think it matters one bit what your routine is as long as you have one. Just think through what you need to do, in what order, and come up with a routine that will work in your situation. The only real opinion I have on this is that I think it's a mistake to use one for teasing without also doing something that allows him to know that it's okay to "talk" to the mare. Same sort of thing, a routine. I certainly don't want any stud to think it's okay to start courting any mare he sees in the ring! lol

[Equine Repro]

Originally Posted by Spotted Mustang

I have read often that it is important to teach a stallion the difference between 'work time' and 'breeding time'.

It is probably MORE imporant to teach a stallion how to behave and to always have control of the situation. Stallions aren't stupid and they'll figure out pretty darn quick what is permissable and what is not.

My question is, for those of you who have (or have had) stallions, how do you let them know the difference?

As noted above, they're not stupid. Some stallion handlers will use a special breeding halter or bridle. Others will have a specific routine. When we are handling a stallion for breeding, we use their regular halter, but we have a long cotton rope (12 feet) with a solid brass chain that is run through their mouth. We rarely need to use the chain, but if things go horribly wrong, it does give one some modicum of control. And, anyone that has worked with breeding stallions will acknowledge that things WILL go wrong at some point. If they claim it never has, they either haven't handled very many stallions or they're lying

What do you do so your stallion knows if he is being handled for breeding/collecting versus just being taken out to groom/ride/train?

<grin>...They're NOT stupid. They will figure out in very short order when they're going to breed and when they're going to work. My one competition stallion when he walked out of the stall, would always nicker and call. If he was going to work, we'd just give a quick growl "eh eh" at him and it was like sticking a pin in a balloon...he'd deflate. If he was going to breed, nothing was said, and he would puff up and start calling. When going into a breeding situation, as long as the stallion behaves in a disciplined manner, is not dangeorus to himself, the handler or the mare or anyone involved, he is allowed to behave like a stallion. He can call, puff up, strut, etc...he's NOT allowed to rear, bite at the handler - although he is allowed to nip at the mare (she'll let him know when it's too much) so long as he isn't savaging her.

HHF is absolutely correct. If you're asking these questions, you're obviously a novice stallion owner. Get someone that KNOWS what they're doing and knows how to handle, train, collect and/or breed a stallion. It is extremely easy to make mistakes when breeding and collecting stallions. Some mistakes will create problems that will last the stallion's entire breeding career. You want it done correctly from the beginning.

Educate yourself. There's LOTS of information out there and if at all possible, go work at a busy breeding farm for a breeding season.

Good luck!

Kathy St.Martin
Equine Reproduction Short Courses
http://www.equine-reproduction.com

[Haas Horse Farm]

I just thought of something else... things when breeding are often not what they appear to be. What I am trying to say is that like many things in the right hands it looks easy... but in novice hands it can be a horror story. I had to go help a lady get my own mare bred to her stallion. She had gotten after him too many times for being loud and hanging out that he would not cover a mare with her. It took me over an hour to get the job done and a lot of work on my part but we did get there FINALLY!

As for the time of day... to me that is not an issue having the mare in heat and everything else ready is. I always, always, always use a stud chain on any stallion that is not super well trained in breeding... as there are always exceptions... hehehe and I have owned one which I did not even have to put a halter on to cover a mare. He is a very rare stallion and he is now a gelding at DB's because the people who bought him from me thought he was mean and could not handle him. They did mean things to him and he in turn retaliated. The guy would ride him with rock grinder spurs and jerk on this mouth at the same time. In frustration the stallion would start bucking and rearing because he had no place to go... jab and stab was all he was getting. It was all because they did not know how to handle a horse, let alone a stallion. I went to an arena they were riding at and rode the stallion without spurs... I had him fixed in about fifteen minutes and completed two sorting runs on him without spurs at all and a loose rein. I then told the wanna bee Cowboy owner that if an old lady like me could ride a stallion without spurs maybe HE could be man enough to do the same. The next time he rode the horse did much better for him but the "Cowboy" never learned and never went and got lessons.

I also always carry a whip. Not a long lunge whip because you are in too close to use it but a shorter buggy type whip. You have to be able to get the stallions attention and be able to do something and make him really sorry if he bites the mare or bites at you or makes any other aggressive moves. Handling stallions is not for the faint at heart. I have been run over, kicked at, tried to bite me, and had mares come totally unglued. You have to know how to be creative to get the job done.

[Spotted Mustang]

I am not a stallion owner period. I know I am not ready to have one of my own. I was asking out of curiosity because a question made me wonder that kind of thing.

I have read a ton of books and all of them say something different so I thought I would ask.

If I was ever even thinking of owning a stallion of my own, I would definitely work with others with a lot more experience and handle other stallions before considering one of my own.