Teaching a horse to go out alone

ImDunToImpress · 10-14-2009, 08:11 AM

Any advice on teaching an old dog new tricks?

My gelding is 15 years old, and refuses to ride out alone. Even when we ride with another rider, if so much as a nose gets ahead of the other horse, he will stop dead in his tracks and wait for the other horse to get ahead of him before walking on again. If I try encouraging him to move ahead alone, he balks sideways, takes steps back, tries turning around, or stands firm and wont budge.

Any helpful tips on training him to go out alone without fuss, or is this just how he will always be?

EVOO · 10-14-2009, 08:14 AM

Will he lead out alone? If so start taking him on long walks every day working through issues as they arise from the ground. Eventually he'll get used to the idea of being alone and you can transfer the work to going out under saddle.

rwinksters · 10-14-2009, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EVOO

Will he lead out alone? If so start taking him on long walks every day working through issues as they arise from the ground. Eventually he'll get used to the idea of being alone and you can transfer the work to going out under saddle.

That's exactly what I was going to suggest. I had the same problem with the horse that I'm leasing and after a few hand walks through the woods, she went out on her own with me.

ImDunToImpress · 10-14-2009, 08:30 AM

Yes, he will lead out alone just fine without issues. It's just while we are riding when he refuses! I think he leads out okay in-hand because he is still "following"...any other ideas?

EVOO · 10-14-2009, 08:35 AM

In that case it's not just a buddy issue. You're ceasing to be his leader when you mount up and that really should be addressed with a trainer or knowledgeable rider on the ground watching you to pick up on even the slightest issues.

Can you move every part of his body from the saddle?

ImDunToImpress · 10-14-2009, 08:43 AM

Evoo - lol. Sorry I had to laugh a little, I know you don't know but I do know, I am not an advanced rider whatsoever. I have been riding for years but honestly, I don't know the proper cues to get a horse to move this way or that just by leg pressure or body posture. I finally just learned how to post a couple months ago! And I can sidepass. But other than that, I am a simple trail rider that just "sits in the saddle flopping around". I don't know dressage, or anything advanced. Can I move every part of his body from the saddle? Unless it is moving him forward or back, I don't have a clue how to ask anything else lol.

=)

If it is a leader issue, I can work with him on the ground...I usually work natural horsemanship techniques - ground manners - respecting space - etc with a new horse but I have only really done that with this gelding a couple of times. He responds extremely well to the few things I learned at my last natural horsemanship clinic so I haven't really done much more. I do have another clinic coming up soon that I plan on attending with him so maybe that will help refresh my techniques and work with him more?

In essence...are you saying he refuses to go out alone with me because I have not established proper leadership or dominance over him?

ETA: He listens to me very well under saddle when riding with another horse...turning, stopping, trotting, etc. he does listen to my cues very well then. His ground manners are great, he is not pushy with me, he is not nippy, mouthy, doesn't try to run me over, respects my space, etc. I always have the attitude that I am boss, I am not an easy pushover.

He is alpha horse in the pasture, whether with a large group or small group he always establishes alpha.

Maybe he has respect FOR me, but he still sees himself as alpha over me while riding?

idk now I am overthinking and getting all confused lol.

EVOO · 10-14-2009, 08:48 AM

With the information we have, yes. I would say it is a leadership issue. If he leads out literally without any issue and you have his respect on the ground it's not so much a general leadership issue as it is a leadership in the saddle issue. It is possible to have the respect of a horse on the ground and "lose" it when you mount up. There's a disconnect somewhere in the training -- with him, with you, with him and you... any combination of those. If this is the case -- you have his respect and you are his leader on the ground but not in the saddle and his training is solid to that point -- no amount of independent ground work is really going to help.

Given that you know you need more training in the saddle I would definitely try to find a trainer to take some basic riding lessons with. Even "just trail riders" can benefit from having control over every part of their horse from the saddle. You can utilize that control to navigate thick brush, fallen trees, etc.

ImDunToImpress · 10-14-2009, 09:05 AM

Evoo - thanks for the advice! I guess if it is training under saddle that we need together, we will have to wait. I can't afford lessons right now unless I can find free ones! My water heater just died at my house and I'm stuck with a bill I have to pay lol. Maybe next spring we can look up a trainer and see if that helps any!

rwinksters · 10-14-2009, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImDunToImpress

Evoo - thanks for the advice! I guess if it is training under saddle that we need together, we will have to wait. I can't afford lessons right now unless I can find free ones! My water heater just died at my house and I'm stuck with a bill I have to pay lol. Maybe next spring we can look up a trainer and see if that helps any!

Taking videos on here and asking questions is a good way to find a "free trainer". Maybe you could start a thread about asking how to establish leadership from the saddle. You'll probably need to give more information or a video of you riding, but it's a good start.

Cheyenne1193 · 10-14-2009, 09:57 AM

I didn't read the other posts so I might just be repeating info

But if your horse is "herd bound" put all of your other horses in stalls/out of view. And begin walking the horse around from the ground, just in the pen out of the pen around your property. And work on the ground manners. And then leave him/her in a pen by herself out of veiw of the others. I know it seems cruel, but he/she needs to rely on you as a member of the herd. Then after a few hours when he/she has settled down bring him/her to the other horses. And work on this for a few days then start walking on the ground through the trails. And you will eventually move your way up

She just needs to realize your a member of the herd to

horses feel protected in numbers so being alone makes them think every shadow is a cougar waiting to pounce, just work on her trusting you to keep her safe

Good luck

10-14-2009, 08:11 AM	#1
ImDunToImpress Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 1,011	Teaching a horse to go out alone Any advice on teaching an old dog new tricks? My gelding is 15 years old, and refuses to ride out alone. Even when we ride with another rider, if so much as a nose gets ahead of the other horse, he will stop dead in his tracks and wait for the other horse to get ahead of him before walking on again. If I try encouraging him to move ahead alone, he balks sideways, takes steps back, tries turning around, or stands firm and wont budge. Any helpful tips on training him to go out alone without fuss, or is this just how he will always be? __________________ ------------- There is something about riding down the street on a prancing horse that makes you feel like something, even when you ain't a thing. ~ Will Rogers

10-14-2009, 08:14 AM	#2
EVOO Senior Member+ Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 2,609 Images: 8	Will he lead out alone? If so start taking him on long walks every day working through issues as they arise from the ground. Eventually he'll get used to the idea of being alone and you can transfer the work to going out under saddle. __________________ Sexy by Christmas Challenge-r!! Start: Sz 14 / Current: Sz 14 / Goal: Sz 10 / lbs Lost: 6.5 ___________________ I was Gobbled by a Turkey And "Blessed" by a Snow Fairy ___________________ Note to Self: It is illegal to stab people for being stupid.

10-14-2009, 08:30 AM	#4
ImDunToImpress Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 1,011	Yes, he will lead out alone just fine without issues. It's just while we are riding when he refuses! I think he leads out okay in-hand because he is still "following"...any other ideas? __________________ ------------- There is something about riding down the street on a prancing horse that makes you feel like something, even when you ain't a thing. ~ Will Rogers

10-14-2009, 08:35 AM	#5
EVOO Senior Member+ Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 2,609 Images: 8	In that case it's not just a buddy issue. You're ceasing to be his leader when you mount up and that really should be addressed with a trainer or knowledgeable rider on the ground watching you to pick up on even the slightest issues. Can you move every part of his body from the saddle? __________________ Sexy by Christmas Challenge-r!! Start: Sz 14 / Current: Sz 14 / Goal: Sz 10 / lbs Lost: 6.5 ___________________ I was Gobbled by a Turkey And "Blessed" by a Snow Fairy ___________________ Note to Self: It is illegal to stab people for being stupid.

10-14-2009, 08:43 AM	#6
ImDunToImpress Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 1,011	Evoo - lol. Sorry I had to laugh a little, I know you don't know but I do know, I am not an advanced rider whatsoever. I have been riding for years but honestly, I don't know the proper cues to get a horse to move this way or that just by leg pressure or body posture. I finally just learned how to post a couple months ago! And I can sidepass. But other than that, I am a simple trail rider that just "sits in the saddle flopping around". I don't know dressage, or anything advanced. Can I move every part of his body from the saddle? Unless it is moving him forward or back, I don't have a clue how to ask anything else lol. =) If it is a leader issue, I can work with him on the ground...I usually work natural horsemanship techniques - ground manners - respecting space - etc with a new horse but I have only really done that with this gelding a couple of times. He responds extremely well to the few things I learned at my last natural horsemanship clinic so I haven't really done much more. I do have another clinic coming up soon that I plan on attending with him so maybe that will help refresh my techniques and work with him more? In essence...are you saying he refuses to go out alone with me because I have not established proper leadership or dominance over him? ETA: He listens to me very well under saddle when riding with another horse...turning, stopping, trotting, etc. he does listen to my cues very well then. His ground manners are great, he is not pushy with me, he is not nippy, mouthy, doesn't try to run me over, respects my space, etc. I always have the attitude that I am boss, I am not an easy pushover. He is alpha horse in the pasture, whether with a large group or small group he always establishes alpha. Maybe he has respect FOR me, but he still sees himself as alpha over me while riding? idk now I am overthinking and getting all confused lol. __________________ ------------- There is something about riding down the street on a prancing horse that makes you feel like something, even when you ain't a thing. ~ Will Rogers

10-14-2009, 08:48 AM	#7
EVOO Senior Member+ Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 2,609 Images: 8	With the information we have, yes. I would say it is a leadership issue. If he leads out literally without any issue and you have his respect on the ground it's not so much a general leadership issue as it is a leadership in the saddle issue. It is possible to have the respect of a horse on the ground and "lose" it when you mount up. There's a disconnect somewhere in the training -- with him, with you, with him and you... any combination of those. If this is the case -- you have his respect and you are his leader on the ground but not in the saddle and his training is solid to that point -- no amount of independent ground work is really going to help. Given that you know you need more training in the saddle I would definitely try to find a trainer to take some basic riding lessons with. Even "just trail riders" can benefit from having control over every part of their horse from the saddle. You can utilize that control to navigate thick brush, fallen trees, etc. __________________ Sexy by Christmas Challenge-r!! Start: Sz 14 / Current: Sz 14 / Goal: Sz 10 / lbs Lost: 6.5 ___________________ I was Gobbled by a Turkey And "Blessed" by a Snow Fairy ___________________ Note to Self: It is illegal to stab people for being stupid.

10-14-2009, 09:05 AM	#8
ImDunToImpress Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 1,011	Evoo - thanks for the advice! I guess if it is training under saddle that we need together, we will have to wait. I can't afford lessons right now unless I can find free ones! My water heater just died at my house and I'm stuck with a bill I have to pay lol. Maybe next spring we can look up a trainer and see if that helps any! __________________ ------------- There is something about riding down the street on a prancing horse that makes you feel like something, even when you ain't a thing. ~ Will Rogers

10-14-2009, 09:57 AM	#10
Cheyenne1193 Full Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Michigan Posts: 143 Images: 5	I didn't read the other posts so I might just be repeating info But if your horse is "herd bound" put all of your other horses in stalls/out of view. And begin walking the horse around from the ground, just in the pen out of the pen around your property. And work on the ground manners. And then leave him/her in a pen by herself out of veiw of the others. I know it seems cruel, but he/she needs to rely on you as a member of the herd. Then after a few hours when he/she has settled down bring him/her to the other horses. And work on this for a few days then start walking on the ground through the trails. And you will eventually move your way up She just needs to realize your a member of the herd to horses feel protected in numbers so being alone makes them think every shadow is a cougar waiting to pounce, just work on her trusting you to keep her safe Good luck __________________ Horse-if God created a more beautiful creature... he kept it to himself. Horses and God are my life... but if I had to choose between the two.. I would choose God

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