[Madamoiselle]

So, last week I had Loki's shoes pulled. He has been barefoot in the back since I've owned him, but was shod on all four since he was 2-ish, so six years.

I had to order venice turpentine because it is impossible to find, and it's on it's way. For now I've been coating in Hoof Heal to help with the tenderness and supposedly it helps with contraction.

Important things to know;

Loki has inflammation in the navicular area, but not bone remodeling. He was not diagnosed with navicular because he displayed absolutely no signs of pain including nerve blocking/flexion tests, and in his over all way of going.

My farrier told me that he was just going to round the toe and clean up his feet instead of forcing it into any position. He told me about the turpentine, and said that if we could get enough circulation then there was a possibility that we could reverse the inflammation because of the horse's ever-changing bone.

Loki is not tender footed on asphalt, and softer footings as well as hard-packed dirt, he walks over gravel alright AT FIRST. Then after a forty-five minute ride he gets ouchy, again, not on the asphalt, but on the gravel and on the shallow sand. He will trip in his left front-which I noticed was the most contracted the other day-but I am thinking he's slightly bruised.

I am considering Boa boots, but I have a few questions, for instance, I do NOT want a quick fix and I don't care if I have to devote a year to hardening his hooves through riding before I can get on with training and showing. Won't the boots interfere with ultimately hardening them?

The pictures are from after our ride, the day of the trim-outdated about a week.

My photography here is awful, my angles are really not good, if you need better than just tell me and I'll bring my camera with me tomorrow.

I had to have another farrier out previous to this trim who short-shod him and it seemed to cause him to toe-out in the hind feet a bit(he did not toe-out before that)






Front

Hind foot - has been barefoot about eight months sound on everything. Looks a bit contracted?

Left front-the foot he goes lame on in the ride. Is that bruising at the bottom of the sole? He is part Appy so his hooves are striped-but I don't know if that would appear there?


Left hind.


Ignore his sandy legs and my dirty boots.

If you could just tell me what needs to be fixed or looked at or if you have any suggestions/advice that would be greatly appreciated!

[3WishesDun]

It's hard to judge some of the pics.....
But I believe I see uneven heels in some of the shots....
and one picture of the dorsal hoofwall looks almost bullnosed.
How was inflammation diagnosed if the horse does not respond to blocks, tests, etc? Did you have a bone scan done?

Is your horse a bit stiff/posty when pivoting in a tight circle? (like at a walk)

[Dawn]

There's a bit of everything going on in each hoof. I'll leave it to someone more experienced to tell you the specifics.

Hoof Heal will not help tenderness, it will make the hoof softer, therefore making it more likely to be tender.

[3WishesDun]

That one solar shot of the front hoof with the coffin bone shaped bruise worries me....
Were good x-rays taken of your horse's coffin bones? How is his sole depth?

[RickB.]

[quote=Madamoiselle;2064806]

Loki has inflammation in the navicular area, but not bone remodeling. He was not diagnosed with navicular because he displayed absolutely no signs of pain including nerve blocking/flexion tests, and in his over all way of going.

Did the stalwart who told you there was no inflammation have either X-ray vision or Infra-Red Thermographic capabilities in his/her hands?

My farrier told me that he was just going to round the toe and clean up his feet instead of forcing it into any position. He told me about the turpentine, and said that if we could get enough circulation then there was a possibility that we could reverse the inflammation because of the horse's ever-changing bone.

Good/proper circulation is a matter of form, function and movement. From what has been thus far indicated, we don't even know if there is inflammation.
And, in a mature/aged horse, bone should not be constantly remodeling.

Loki is not tender footed on asphalt, and softer footings as well as hard-packed dirt, he walks over gravel alright AT FIRST. Then after a forty-five minute ride he gets ouchy, again, not on the asphalt, but on the gravel and on the shallow sand.

Gee, what do you think this tells you?

He will trip in his left front-which I noticed was the most contracted the other day-but I am thinking he's slightly bruised.

Maybe, maybe not. He could be heel sore and as a result, toe stabbing, leading to tripping/stumbling. His trim could be incorrect, causing toe stabbing. The leg may be getting fatigued for one reason or another, resulting in toe stabbing. Etc.

I am considering Boa boots, but I have a few questions, for instance, I do NOT want a quick fix and I don't care if I have to devote a year to hardening his hooves through riding before I can get on with training and showing. Won't the boots interfere with ultimately hardening them?

It depends. But if boots are what keep him from getting sore on gravel, then, what's the question?

I had to have another farrier out previous to this trim who short-shod him and it seemed to cause him to toe-out in the hind feet a bit(he did not toe-out before that)

A horse with correct conformation will naturally toe out slightly behind.

Heel is too tall, foot has a dish at the toe

right side of photo: bar is too long, quarters are broken out, toe needs rolled, but from the top(dorsal surface of hoof capsule) not the bottom.
Left side of photo: Heel is too tall and pushed forward
Frog needs loose and overgrown material removed.
Both heels could be lowered/pulled back more.(left more than right)

Hind foot - has been barefoot about eight months sound on everything. Looks a bit contracted?

No, its not contracted, just needs a proper trim and correct balancing.

Left front-the foot he goes lame on in the ride. Is that bruising at the bottom of the sole?

Appears to be.
Both heels are too tall, there is a medial toe quarter flare, the frog needs attention.

Left hind.

Frog looks much better, the foot is unbalanced, the wall is too long and the toe quarters have been left too full causing a (unnecessary)boxy square shape to the toe.

[Madamoiselle]

That one solar shot of the front hoof with the coffin bone shaped bruise worries me....
Were good x-rays taken of your horse's coffin bones? How is his sole depth?

I only have rads of the navicular and hock area. His soles are fairly shallow, but have grown a bit more concave. To answer you question from the first post-yes he is posty when pivoting off the front feet-I noticed that when I asked for a haunch turn.

UPDATE- he had spring shots done today, I turned him out in the ring and he decided to do laps and was bucking and rearing. He was moving beautifully and the soreness was not bothering him-he was not left loose long enough to determine if the soreness would return after a bit more working-but he didn't seem as ouchy on the gravel. He did have the other day off, leading me to believe it is the bruise that is causing him that pain? If that is true then does that mean that I simply progressed with the conditioning to quickly and too carelessly?


Dawn, thankyou for the info-can I still use it on his frog? Supposedly, it helps with contraction-but I don't know it it's a load of **** because it also said it helped with tender feet. I had to order venice turpentine over the internet because no one had any in stock.


Rick, thankyou, that was very helpful. I'm pretty sure that he is not heel sore as he lands heel first, and I was taught to squeeze the bars together up towards the bulbs to check for heel pain(I may be messing up the exact terms, I was just taught where to squeeze) and he could care less. I was not sure about getting hoofboots because I did not want to have to depend on them in the long term, I thought that if I constantly rode in boots it would impede my goal of ultimately toughening his hooves-I figured that if in eight months time he is sound on everything barefoot in the hind end he'd be okay up front. Him pulling up sore after 45 minutes tells me that he is bruised and tenderfooted from being shod all of his life-it seems to be that after he has run around in turnout(which is currently hard-packed dirt) all day and adding on our riding he is sore.

I will also mention that he pulled both shoes in the pasture on his own before this trim and that he was not sore at all-but I'm not sure if the bruise is to blame either. Although I admit that the trim needs work, the farrier took off a bit less than he would have hoping that the hoof would correct itself with regular riding.

What would you suggest for the bruise? Just rest with the application of the turpentine from now on? If I ride should I be riding only in the grass, or the ring? I definately value all of your opinions and will be talking to my farrier and if it doesn't improve then I will be switching.

[Dawn]

Not sure what the official verdict is, but I would not put it on the frog. It's meant to harden, and you don't want a 'hard' frog.

[Dawn]

Wait, wait, I answered that wrong. I was talking about turpentine. On the Hoof heal, probably won't hurt anything. I prefer to apply it to the coronary band and outer hoof wall anyway. To the heels also seems to help on contracted feet.

[RickB.]

Originally Posted by Madamoiselle

the farrier took off a bit less than he would have hoping that the hoof would correct itself with regular riding.

It is both my observation and experience that clubby/club/high heeled feet/whatever do not correct themselves with riding, regular or otherwise.
And, the longer those heels stay inappropriately tall/high, the more potential damage there is that can be done to the structures infront of the apex of the frog, ie: the sole, the sole corium, the coffin bone and potentially, the circumflex artery.

[Dawn]

Personally, in my limited experience, chronically high heels get worse with riding/work as the breakover movement causes the toe to wear even more, but the heel to wear little/none.