Such thing as a waterford kimberwick?

Meggilyn · 03-31-2008, 07:38 PM

Lol okay. probably a silly question, but I was just wondering if there is such a thing as a waterford kimberwick?
My horse used to be alright in a waterford but needed something more. Now I have him in the kimberwick but he's started grabbing onto and "plowing" (head down, runs).

I wish there was something in between.. and if there is (even if it's not a waterford kimberwick lol) please tell me!

luvs2ride79 · 03-31-2008, 07:58 PM

You might try a three ring gag with a french link. That will elevate his front end and give him less to hang on.

At the same time, you should really work with a trainer who can help you address this problem. I'd recommend a bood (or better) Dressage trainer, preferably a Classical one that trains in the "back-to-front" way of thinking.

http://www.doversaddlery.com/french-...1-0171/cn/1473
http://www.onestopequineshop.com/3-R..._p_95-602.html
http://www.onestopequineshop.com/3-R..._p_95-605.html
http://www.123tack.com/winning/produ...id=3456&s_id=0&

Native Winds · 03-31-2008, 08:15 PM

You can also look into a Bourcher bit. I cannot say completely that this will work for I cannot see how your horses is going and what exactly he is doing. Its just hard to make a recommendation not knowing the specs..

Meggilyn · 03-31-2008, 08:33 PM

Thanks guys.

Well the problem is, when I first got him, he had no breaks (hard mouth and all). So the waterford really wasn't doing much except keep him from grabbing it (which he didn't seem to mind since he'd run through it anyways). So we switched to a kimberwick that he seemed to really like and listens/respects.
Unfortunately he's figured out that he can grab this one. So we'll be putting along and he'll decide to slowly lower his head, grab the bit and bolt.

Dawn · 03-31-2008, 08:35 PM

What have you done training wise to solve this?

Horses can and will bolt no matter what you have or do not have in their mouth. Harsher bits may work for a short time before they discover that they can do the same thing in it as well. Or that the pain isn't a big enough deterent any longer.

Native Winds · 03-31-2008, 10:03 PM

It could mean you will have to restart back to square one and do some bitting work on the ground. A trainer can help you also if you can afford one. One thing i have done is get a bit that has keys aka players aka dangles and even crickets (these are geared more toward curb bits that have rollers).

I was working with a mare that would lean on the bit some and would grip on the bit and try to set it. I tried a 3 peice mouth peice but though it helped it did not completely fix the problem. I borrowed a bit from an aquaintance it was a full cheek snaffle with a ring in the middle with 4 or 5 keys on it. At first this mare did not know what to think of this bit. She walked with her mouth wide open and tongue lollling in and out. She stopped that in about 15 minutes. However she would "mouth" the keys and "play" with the keys in her mouth. With her mouth working and not set signals where getting to her and things began happening for the better. You see with her playing with the keys her jaw is not set but working along with her tounge it became more ...pliable. She would have slaviva dripping from her mouth wich tells me that her mouth is moist and is able to receive signals much better. In the past her mouth stayed dry unless I put a pinch of salt in her mouth to stimilate salavation. This worked on that little mare. The bit is also used on Breeding stallions and come with many types of keys and lengths and solid mouths and broken mouths and etc.
Some times being a bit different and thinking out of the box pays off. note that I said SOMETIMES. Like I said I cannot recommend a specific bit because I cannot watch your horse go and your actions thereof. Just dont reject a bit because its used typicaly for other reasons or diciplines. "First do no harm" though.!. You still might want to think about an instructor or a trainer. To bad you dont live near me.

Meggilyn · 04-01-2008, 05:46 PM

I do.. well did have an instructor until just a few days ago. She's moving and I'm currently switching barns.

We've been working on voice commands and "woahs" as well as transitions so I don't have to use the bit as much.

03-31-2008, 07:38 PM	#1
Meggilyn Full Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 275 Images: 10	Such thing as a waterford kimberwick? Lol okay. probably a silly question, but I was just wondering if there is such a thing as a waterford kimberwick? My horse used to be alright in a waterford but needed something more. Now I have him in the kimberwick but he's started grabbing onto and "plowing" (head down, runs). I wish there was something in between.. and if there is (even if it's not a waterford kimberwick lol) please tell me!

03-31-2008, 07:58 PM	#2
luvs2ride79 Senior Member+ Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Arkansas, USA Posts: 3,855 Images: 26	You might try a three ring gag with a french link. That will elevate his front end and give him less to hang on. At the same time, you should really work with a trainer who can help you address this problem. I'd recommend a bood (or better) Dressage trainer, preferably a Classical one that trains in the "back-to-front" way of thinking. http://www.doversaddlery.com/french-...1-0171/cn/1473 http://www.onestopequineshop.com/3-R..._p_95-602.html http://www.onestopequineshop.com/3-R..._p_95-605.html http://www.123tack.com/winning/produ...id=3456&s_id=0& __________________ "To be an equestrian in the classical sense is not just to be a rider. It is a position in life." --Charles de Kunffy EquineFriends.com**2HotToTrot.com Anti-Slaughter and PROUD! StopHorseSlaughter.com

03-31-2008, 08:15 PM	#3
Native Winds Senior Member+ Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: somewhere inside my head. Posts: 526 Images: 4 Blog Entries: 10	You can also look into a Bourcher bit. I cannot say completely that this will work for I cannot see how your horses is going and what exactly he is doing. Its just hard to make a recommendation not knowing the specs.. __________________ "....for what ever happens to the beast shall soon happen to man..." Souix "Believe the words of a fool and you will soon become a fool."

03-31-2008, 10:03 PM	#6
Native Winds Senior Member+ Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: somewhere inside my head. Posts: 526 Images: 4 Blog Entries: 10	It could mean you will have to restart back to square one and do some bitting work on the ground. A trainer can help you also if you can afford one. One thing i have done is get a bit that has keys aka players aka dangles and even crickets (these are geared more toward curb bits that have rollers). I was working with a mare that would lean on the bit some and would grip on the bit and try to set it. I tried a 3 peice mouth peice but though it helped it did not completely fix the problem. I borrowed a bit from an aquaintance it was a full cheek snaffle with a ring in the middle with 4 or 5 keys on it. At first this mare did not know what to think of this bit. She walked with her mouth wide open and tongue lollling in and out. She stopped that in about 15 minutes. However she would "mouth" the keys and "play" with the keys in her mouth. With her mouth working and not set signals where getting to her and things began happening for the better. You see with her playing with the keys her jaw is not set but working along with her tounge it became more ...pliable. She would have slaviva dripping from her mouth wich tells me that her mouth is moist and is able to receive signals much better. In the past her mouth stayed dry unless I put a pinch of salt in her mouth to stimilate salavation. This worked on that little mare. The bit is also used on Breeding stallions and come with many types of keys and lengths and solid mouths and broken mouths and etc. Some times being a bit different and thinking out of the box pays off. note that I said SOMETIMES. Like I said I cannot recommend a specific bit because I cannot watch your horse go and your actions thereof. Just dont reject a bit because its used typicaly for other reasons or diciplines. "First do no harm" though.!. You still might want to think about an instructor or a trainer. To bad you dont live near me. __________________ "....for what ever happens to the beast shall soon happen to man..." Souix "Believe the words of a fool and you will soon become a fool."

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03-31-2008, 08:33 PM	#4
Meggilyn Full Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 275 Images: 10	Thanks guys. Well the problem is, when I first got him, he had no breaks (hard mouth and all). So the waterford really wasn't doing much except keep him from grabbing it (which he didn't seem to mind since he'd run through it anyways). So we switched to a kimberwick that he seemed to really like and listens/respects. Unfortunately he's figured out that he can grab this one. So we'll be putting along and he'll decide to slowly lower his head, grab the bit and bolt.

03-31-2008, 08:35 PM	#5
Dawn Senior Member+ Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Tennessee Posts: 29,584 Images: 1283	What have you done training wise to solve this? Horses can and will bolt no matter what you have or do not have in their mouth. Harsher bits may work for a short time before they discover that they can do the same thing in it as well. Or that the pain isn't a big enough deterent any longer.

04-01-2008, 05:46 PM	#7
Meggilyn Full Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 275 Images: 10	I do.. well did have an instructor until just a few days ago. She's moving and I'm currently switching barns. We've been working on voice commands and "woahs" as well as transitions so I don't have to use the bit as much.