Stubborn Horse

Ringo · 12-20-2006, 08:40 PM

Ok, I have a bunch of training questions and I'm going to try to pack them all into one thread. Here goes. First of all, My horse Ringo is very "pushy", like when I'm holding his bucket or hay he'll try to grab mouthfuls of it before I set it down. Second, he nips, like when I'm leading him he'll suddenly nip at my hand, and before I can do anything about it he stops. He's never used his teeth on my hand before but he has on my coat. Third, he's VERY curious, too curious. When I'm mucking out the field he'll come over and grab my gloves, or try to knock over the wheelbarrow, or pick up the pitch fork and throw it.

Fourth, sometimes when I try to push him over if he's in my way he'll stand his ground and start pawing and nickering at me. Fifth, Today I was leading him back to the pasture after riding him and when we got a few feet from the gate he stopped and wouldn't go a step farther. I had to get the whip, but as soon as he saw it he went through. So we worked on it for awhile, going in and out, in and out.... and he never did stop resisting going back in the pasture. I think the reason he didn't want to go back in is becase the grass is literally "greener on the other side of the fence" And he's not afraid of ANYTHING including humans, so that's probably part of the reason he's doing all this. Basically, he's a very disrespectfull horse and I would love some suggestions as to what I should do about it. Thanks!

Cara · 12-20-2006, 08:55 PM

He sounds like a pushy horse who needs to learn some ground manners. If I were you, I'd carry a dressage whip ('cause it's longer) with me at all times for a while. When he gets in your space or tries to nip at you, give him a nice whack. You can also have it with you when you're mucking in the pasture. If you do this though, make sure he's not scared of the whip, take the time to teach him to stay out of your space, while also taking the time to calmly rub the whip all over his body so it's not scary.

For him nipping, once he tries to nip you, you've got 3 seconds to correct him (that goes for anything). Nipping is a BIG no-no. Give him a good slap in the muzzle with your hand when he tries to nip. Many people think this will make him head shy, but if you are consistent, and only do it when he's trying to nip, and at other times take the time to rub his face, and such, he should not become head shy.

You don't want him to be afraid of you, but you want him to respect your space and stay out of it. You can go up to him and rub and get on him, but he cannot come up to you and rub and get on you. And always remember, when working with him (on all ground issues), make the right thing easy and the wrong thing difficult.

May I suggest some reading? Teach Your Horse Perfect Manners (

Amazon.com: Teach Your Horse Perfect Manners: How You Should Behave So Your Horse Does Too:... ), is an EXCELLENT book. I highly reccomend it, you'll find it very beneficial, and find some good exercises in it to work on your ground work.

Ringo · 12-20-2006, 08:58 PM

Thank you! I'll definately buy the book, and get a dressage whip. If anyone else has something to add, please do!

SuZQuzie · 12-20-2006, 09:02 PM

Whenever he does something naughty (like nipping), throw a fit. Yell, stamp your feet, push him, wave your arms, etc. Make sure he knows that is NOT okay. I'm assuming you mean he nips at your hand once and then leaves at that. Once is far too many. As soon as you can react to the behavior, do so with intensity. Effective and abuse free.

I feel that you and he would benefit from round pen and ground work. I have trained all the horses I have owned in the past 6 years "away," "stand," "back," and "over." Respectively, they tell the horse, "get out of my bubble," "stop moving/stay there (VERY helpful when your horse spooks when tied)," "back up," and "move over/side step." The "away" will be very helpful with that mucking problem as well as the hay. When feeding my horses, I tell them "away," when I first enter their stalls, place the food, and they know they can go get it once I begin to leave the stall. If they before my body language says "okay," I throw a fit and yell.

Stand helps tremendously with the pawing once he is taught that. To teach it, halt him, face him, say "stand," and reward for him being still for a very short amount of time (5-10 sec) and repeat "stand" as you reward. As he begins to understand what you are asking of him, extend the time. I carry a hoofpick in my pocket usually, especially when dealing with unruly horses. If they don't listen to my hand pressure, they get a hoofpick instead. Just watch out for back legs proclaiming their protest to this gesture. Also, an "away" would be effective here.

When he refuses to go back in the pasture, I would recommend a stud chain or even the leadrope looped over the noseband. Not as cumbersome, much less subtle, and you have a more immediate correction.

Ringo · 12-20-2006, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuZQuzie

I'm assuming you mean he nips at your hand once and then leaves at that.

Yes, that's what he does. He does it when I'm leading him in a direction he doesn't want to go, or if I want him to trot and he doesn't feel like it. (I never let him get away with it though) Thank you for the help!

hjackma51982 · 12-21-2006, 04:54 AM

another thing you might work on is having him yield his body to you. Basically, the goal is that if you move into his space he should move out of yours. I always just used my thumb and I would walk toward the horse using my thumb to create pressure. as soon as they yeild to me the pressure is released.with some yielding at first consisted of simply shifting weight away from me. It usually doesn't take long for them to realize what is expected of them.

Blistering Winds · 12-21-2006, 05:08 AM

Like others have said, this comes down to simple dominance.

Pure "who is in charge" is seen at dinner time. if your horse will not move off when you say to from his food, he does not respect you.

Work on this. Make a fus, use a lunge whip to keep him at your "BUBBLE" I fyou don't have a bubble, MAKE one. Start with a lunge whip (wrap the popper and hold it so it doesn't swing).

Swing your lunge whip around you. "MAKE" the visible/touchable bubble with it. If he comes into it, he gets smacked with it......you don't make an effort to smack him, just keep swinging the lunge stick back and forth. He will get the idea. Place the food down, and stand. Step INTO him at this point, telling him BACK...make him back off and move away.

THEN< walk away from the food.

Do this DAILY.

This might help in your other areas.....once "food" respect is down, many other "respect" areas fall into place.....not all the time, but a good majority of the time....

Ringo · 12-21-2006, 07:34 AM

Thanks for the suggestions! Today when I went out to feed him and muck out the field, I made him stay away from the food untill I walked away. He did fine, but after he was done eating he came over to me (I was mucking out the field) So I held out the whip to make him stop before he came into my space, he did stop, but then he started coming again so I snapped the whip, (without hitting him) but he kept coming so I snapped the whip again and this time I hit him a little bit, and he got mad and lunged forward a little bit as if he was going to charge! And he also started acting like he was going to turn and try to kick me a couple of times. He scared me! But I just got him a week and a half ago and I have a 30 day trial, so if this continues, I'm getting rid of him. I DO NOT want a dangerous horse! If anyone has any more suggestions please post them! Thanks!

Blistering Winds · 12-21-2006, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ringo

Thanks for the suggestions! Today when I went out to feed him and muck out the field, I made him stay away from the food untill I walked away. He did fine, but after he was done eating he came over to me (I was mucking out the field) So I held out the whip to make him stop before he came into my space, he did stop, but then he started coming again so I snapped the whip, (without hitting him) but he kept coming so I snapped the whip again and this time I hit him a little bit, and he got mad and lunged forward a little bit as if he was going to charge! And he also started acting like he was going to turn and try to kick me a couple of times. He scared me! But I just got him a week and a half ago and I have a 30 day trial, so if this continues, I'm getting rid of him. I DO NOT want a dangerous horse! If anyone has any more suggestions please post them! Thanks!

Then he is totally testing you.

When he lunged at you, if he was in my hands, he would have found that whip upside his head, TOTALLY discouraging forward movement.

When you hit him, WHERE did it hit? Shoulder, barrel, bum? That will determine if he 'lunged' at you out of spite.....or because you basically told him to. Anything barrel back would have been my mistake, not his for lunging into my space. Shoulder should haev moved him away (turning) and face...would have turn or back off.

But if you are inexperienced.....and starting to fear this horse, then it is a good idea that you turn the horse back over. Keep looking. there is a better, more behaved horse out there for you.

Ringo · 12-21-2006, 08:21 AM

I hit him on his chest. I think the reason he's so dominant is because he's the only horse in the field. We would get another animal to be in there with him, but we can't afford it right now. We are going to call the previous owner today and tell her what's going on and that he's probably not going to work out for us. Thanks!

12-20-2006, 08:40 PM	#1
Ringo Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Rockford, Minnesota Posts: 1,117 Images: 304	Stubborn Horse Ok, I have a bunch of training questions and I'm going to try to pack them all into one thread. Here goes. First of all, My horse Ringo is very "pushy", like when I'm holding his bucket or hay he'll try to grab mouthfuls of it before I set it down. Second, he nips, like when I'm leading him he'll suddenly nip at my hand, and before I can do anything about it he stops. He's never used his teeth on my hand before but he has on my coat. Third, he's VERY curious, too curious. When I'm mucking out the field he'll come over and grab my gloves, or try to knock over the wheelbarrow, or pick up the pitch fork and throw it. Fourth, sometimes when I try to push him over if he's in my way he'll stand his ground and start pawing and nickering at me. Fifth, Today I was leading him back to the pasture after riding him and when we got a few feet from the gate he stopped and wouldn't go a step farther. I had to get the whip, but as soon as he saw it he went through. So we worked on it for awhile, going in and out, in and out.... and he never did stop resisting going back in the pasture. I think the reason he didn't want to go back in is becase the grass is literally "greener on the other side of the fence" And he's not afraid of ANYTHING including humans, so that's probably part of the reason he's doing all this. Basically, he's a very disrespectfull horse and I would love some suggestions as to what I should do about it. Thanks!

12-20-2006, 08:55 PM	#2
Cara Senior Member+ Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Northern California Posts: 3,871 Images: 27	He sounds like a pushy horse who needs to learn some ground manners. If I were you, I'd carry a dressage whip ('cause it's longer) with me at all times for a while. When he gets in your space or tries to nip at you, give him a nice whack. You can also have it with you when you're mucking in the pasture. If you do this though, make sure he's not scared of the whip, take the time to teach him to stay out of your space, while also taking the time to calmly rub the whip all over his body so it's not scary. For him nipping, once he tries to nip you, you've got 3 seconds to correct him (that goes for anything). Nipping is a BIG no-no. Give him a good slap in the muzzle with your hand when he tries to nip. Many people think this will make him head shy, but if you are consistent, and only do it when he's trying to nip, and at other times take the time to rub his face, and such, he should not become head shy. You don't want him to be afraid of you, but you want him to respect your space and stay out of it. You can go up to him and rub and get on him, but he cannot come up to you and rub and get on you. And always remember, when working with him (on all ground issues), make the right thing easy and the wrong thing difficult. May I suggest some reading? Teach Your Horse Perfect Manners (Amazon.com: Teach Your Horse Perfect Manners: How You Should Behave So Your Horse Does Too:... ), is an EXCELLENT book. I highly reccomend it, you'll find it very beneficial, and find some good exercises in it to work on your ground work. __________________ ~It Depends~ Cara ~ http://dressagecowgrl.blogspot.com ~

12-20-2006, 09:02 PM	#4
SuZQuzie Senior Member+ Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: SoCal/Central Coast Posts: 3,117 Images: 546 Blog Entries: 222	Whenever he does something naughty (like nipping), throw a fit. Yell, stamp your feet, push him, wave your arms, etc. Make sure he knows that is NOT okay. I'm assuming you mean he nips at your hand once and then leaves at that. Once is far too many. As soon as you can react to the behavior, do so with intensity. Effective and abuse free. I feel that you and he would benefit from round pen and ground work. I have trained all the horses I have owned in the past 6 years "away," "stand," "back," and "over." Respectively, they tell the horse, "get out of my bubble," "stop moving/stay there (VERY helpful when your horse spooks when tied)," "back up," and "move over/side step." The "away" will be very helpful with that mucking problem as well as the hay. When feeding my horses, I tell them "away," when I first enter their stalls, place the food, and they know they can go get it once I begin to leave the stall. If they before my body language says "okay," I throw a fit and yell. Stand helps tremendously with the pawing once he is taught that. To teach it, halt him, face him, say "stand," and reward for him being still for a very short amount of time (5-10 sec) and repeat "stand" as you reward. As he begins to understand what you are asking of him, extend the time. I carry a hoofpick in my pocket usually, especially when dealing with unruly horses. If they don't listen to my hand pressure, they get a hoofpick instead. Just watch out for back legs proclaiming their protest to this gesture. Also, an "away" would be effective here. When he refuses to go back in the pasture, I would recommend a stud chain or even the leadrope looped over the noseband. Not as cumbersome, much less subtle, and you have a more immediate correction. __________________ *-Suzie* Mazaire (Ed - 14yo dutch WB) Dad's Shiny Penny (Penny - 15yo TB) RIP Yauvani Proud Member of the Eventers Club

12-21-2006, 05:08 AM	#7
Blistering Winds Senior Member+ Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Augusta, Kansas Posts: 31,979 Images: 831 Blog Entries: 17	Like others have said, this comes down to simple dominance. Pure "who is in charge" is seen at dinner time. if your horse will not move off when you say to from his food, he does not respect you. Work on this. Make a fus, use a lunge whip to keep him at your "BUBBLE" I fyou don't have a bubble, MAKE one. Start with a lunge whip (wrap the popper and hold it so it doesn't swing). Swing your lunge whip around you. "MAKE" the visible/touchable bubble with it. If he comes into it, he gets smacked with it......you don't make an effort to smack him, just keep swinging the lunge stick back and forth. He will get the idea. Place the food down, and stand. Step INTO him at this point, telling him BACK...make him back off and move away. THEN< walk away from the food. Do this DAILY. This might help in your other areas.....once "food" respect is down, many other "respect" areas fall into place.....not all the time, but a good majority of the time.... __________________ HGS is a very powerful, addicting place that is just as bad as cigarettes, however healthier for you AND your horse.

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12-20-2006, 08:58 PM	#3
Ringo Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Rockford, Minnesota Posts: 1,117 Images: 304	Thank you! I'll definately buy the book, and get a dressage whip. If anyone else has something to add, please do!

12-21-2006, 04:54 AM	#6
hjackma51982 Full Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Oregon Posts: 240	another thing you might work on is having him yield his body to you. Basically, the goal is that if you move into his space he should move out of yours. I always just used my thumb and I would walk toward the horse using my thumb to create pressure. as soon as they yeild to me the pressure is released.with some yielding at first consisted of simply shifting weight away from me. It usually doesn't take long for them to realize what is expected of them.

12-21-2006, 07:34 AM	#8
Ringo Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Rockford, Minnesota Posts: 1,117 Images: 304	Thanks for the suggestions! Today when I went out to feed him and muck out the field, I made him stay away from the food untill I walked away. He did fine, but after he was done eating he came over to me (I was mucking out the field) So I held out the whip to make him stop before he came into my space, he did stop, but then he started coming again so I snapped the whip, (without hitting him) but he kept coming so I snapped the whip again and this time I hit him a little bit, and he got mad and lunged forward a little bit as if he was going to charge! And he also started acting like he was going to turn and try to kick me a couple of times. He scared me! But I just got him a week and a half ago and I have a 30 day trial, so if this continues, I'm getting rid of him. I DO NOT want a dangerous horse! If anyone has any more suggestions please post them! Thanks!

12-21-2006, 08:21 AM	#10
Ringo Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Rockford, Minnesota Posts: 1,117 Images: 304	I hit him on his chest. I think the reason he's so dominant is because he's the only horse in the field. We would get another animal to be in there with him, but we can't afford it right now. We are going to call the previous owner today and tell her what's going on and that he's probably not going to work out for us. Thanks!