Strong Horse, need a new bit??

Berkeley1 · 03-21-2008, 07:30 AM

I have an OTTB and I show him in the 3ft hunter classes. He is a very nice jumper, but he is so strong. I use a corkscrew D-ring snaffle on him. I can work him at home and get him soft, but it never lasts. I can get him soft and as soon as I begin jumping, he grabs the bit and runs off, and then I get him fost again, and the same thing, he still takes off when jumping.
My trainer works with him often and he is always good for her, and then he is good for me after she rides him, but the next day it is like he has forgotten everything.
It is very difficult to keep him under control at shows. I have to pull on him around the whole course and by the last line, I am usually so tired of pulling I let go and he takes a stride out.
Should I consider a different bit? My tainer says I could try a few different things. I have tried bits with curb chains and those don't work on him. He refuses to move foreward. I have also tried a gag bit, which worked, but I can't use that in the hunter ring.
Please give me some suggestions!
thanks!

iluvmywarmblood · 03-21-2008, 07:39 AM

You could try changing his bit, or you could try changing his feed. If he is on grain/oats, that could be your problem right there, he already has a lot of energy and grain and oats just add to it. Take him off the grain/oats and put him on a complete feed. I am not sure what types of feed you have in your area, but we have front runner, and they have a feed called cool command and it was specially designed for thoroughbreds, and it helps to keep them from becoming hot(crazy) . It is worth looking into. Hope this helps.

Rhythm 'n Blues · 03-21-2008, 07:44 AM

upping the anti with a stronger bit is NEVER the answer! It may work for a bit, but it is just a band-aid over a giant wound that needs stitches! Eventually the wound will bleed through and you will need yet another band-aid.

You need to take a few steps back, and re-evaluate your riding and training. If you ask me, any horse taking off over fences is not properly educated on the flat, and is not ready to be jumping......provided there are no other reasons for the taking off (ie: pain, fear, etc)

wrightdanes · 03-21-2008, 07:56 AM

I watched a Clinton Anderson session where he worked with a heavy handed rider like yourself. If you stop and look at the problem with a different perspective, then you might find you answer. Lots of work on the flat with the horse and several times around the course and the horse ened the session relaxed and slow. What did he do and would it work for you? Maybe. As an English rider I tended to sway away from trainers that worked the western horse, but I have to tell you- Clinton is good.

tbtrainer · 03-21-2008, 08:00 AM

If he is otherwise good, and just leans on you maybe a Waterford will help... it's very hard for one to lean on that bit, and it's not a harsh bit either.

Preppy_Ponies · 03-21-2008, 08:22 AM

I agree with Tbtrainer, a waterford might be worth a shot.

Other than that I would say go back to flatwork and get him really solid. I usually have my hunter/jumpers doing some dressage work to improve their listening skills

Once he's really responding to you on the flat there's a jumping exercise I like to use. Basically just start incorporating small jumps into your flatwork. So say your cantering a circle, just find a jump to include in that circle. Then go back to more flatwork. It can help him not get so excitable while jumping.

Also if your riding around in a half seat it might be a good idea to sit down and use that extra security. I know it's not what's favored in the hunter ring right now but it's better to sit and have a nice round that have a horse running away while in a half seat.

AtomicPenny · 03-21-2008, 08:40 AM

If he's fine for the trainer and only rushes or leans on the bit with you...than it's you and your riding that is a bigger problem, not the horse. A harsher bit in a situation like this is, like Rythem n' Blues said, a band-aid. And a band-aid that will then need to be a dressing, to a cast, to an amputation....it will only cause you to need stronger and stronger bits as you continue riding. Better to get it fixed properly so you don't need an artificial "band-aid".

Go back to basics and find out where the problem lies. Are you in a perpetual half seat? Do you grip with your knees or thighs? Are you heavy handed and unfollowing? My suspicion is that you're not riding properly and he becomes on his forehand. A horse that's on his forehand will either lean into the bit for support, or raise his head and hollow his back and evade the bit. Both of these can be misunderstood as the horse trying to "grab" it. A horse that is on their forehand is also unbalanced. To jump 3' he needs to be rock backed, collected, and engaged, which I'm assuming he's not. An unbalanced horse can very easily become nervous, and as is common with ottbs...when nervous they rush.
I highly suggest going back to flat work and evaluating where you problem lies, fix that, and learn to help your horse move well. Then, and only then, should you be jumping. Start low and with simple gymnastics and inviting fences. Incorporate them into your flatwork so that there is not flat work and jumping, there should be flatwork with occasional "obstacles" in the way. Jumping is mostly flatwork, without solid basics you're round is going to be no good anyway.

Do you have any pictures or video? It would allow us all to help you out better by pinpointing a problem and let us give you some better, possibly more applicable, advice

Karen

Berkeley1 · 03-21-2008, 03:08 PM

Hi,
thanks so much for all of the advise! After thinking about it, I do think it is me with the problem! I have tried using a deeper seet on him, but his head goes in the air and he stars hoping up and down, so my trainer said not to sit so deep. I grip with my inner thigh, but I don't think I grip with my knees. I am not sure what heavy handed means, so I can't answer that one.
Here is a link to photos from the last show I attened.
http://www.flashpointmediaservices.com/FlashPhotoSite/
In the 2nd, darker photo, that is the one where he took a stride out, so I was left behind. I may have some more photos somewhere on the forum. I currently don't have any video of him.

royalrox · 03-21-2008, 04:01 PM

I think that just takes you to the site?? What show did you do, is it in the gallery or proof section, and then what division, etc, so we can find it?

Anyway before looking at pics, the fact that he will lighten up for your trainer, makes it pretty clear that there's something your doing or not doing

When you ask him to slow what do you do? Do you just steadily pull on the reins with no release or no seat/leg. You said his head went up when you tried to sit deep, make sure your not DRIVING with your seat, you can sit a canter and just follow, not digging in pushing them forward, if that makes sense. I will wait for pics though

Banat · 03-21-2008, 04:01 PM

Yeah, you are the problem, sorry. You said he goes good with the trainer, and then he's good with you for a little while after she's fixed him, then after you ride him a while he's bad again.
You probably don't want to hear it, but you need to learn to use your hands better. Take more lessons from your trainer with the focus being your hands.

03-21-2008, 07:30 AM	#1
Berkeley1 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Louisiana Posts: 301 Images: 25	Strong Horse, need a new bit?? I have an OTTB and I show him in the 3ft hunter classes. He is a very nice jumper, but he is so strong. I use a corkscrew D-ring snaffle on him. I can work him at home and get him soft, but it never lasts. I can get him soft and as soon as I begin jumping, he grabs the bit and runs off, and then I get him fost again, and the same thing, he still takes off when jumping. My trainer works with him often and he is always good for her, and then he is good for me after she rides him, but the next day it is like he has forgotten everything. It is very difficult to keep him under control at shows. I have to pull on him around the whole course and by the last line, I am usually so tired of pulling I let go and he takes a stride out. Should I consider a different bit? My tainer says I could try a few different things. I have tried bits with curb chains and those don't work on him. He refuses to move foreward. I have also tried a gag bit, which worked, but I can't use that in the hunter ring. Please give me some suggestions! thanks!

03-21-2008, 07:44 AM	#3
Rhythm 'n Blues Senior Member+ Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 3,657 Images: 172	upping the anti with a stronger bit is NEVER the answer! It may work for a bit, but it is just a band-aid over a giant wound that needs stitches! Eventually the wound will bleed through and you will need yet another band-aid. You need to take a few steps back, and re-evaluate your riding and training. If you ask me, any horse taking off over fences is not properly educated on the flat, and is not ready to be jumping......provided there are no other reasons for the taking off (ie: pain, fear, etc) __________________ Pay equal (if not more) attention to your own self carriage as that of your horse

03-21-2008, 08:00 AM	#5
tbtrainer Senior Member+ Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Southern Maryland Posts: 7,849 Images: 450	If he is otherwise good, and just leans on you maybe a Waterford will help... it's very hard for one to lean on that bit, and it's not a harsh bit either. __________________ *http://www.freewebs.com/pilotscovefarm/index.htm* *"My treasures do not clink together or glitter; They gleam in the sun and neigh in the night."* *In my experience, the best way to slow down a runaway horse is to bet on it...*

03-21-2008, 04:01 PM	#9
royalrox Senior Member+ Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Chester Springs, PA Posts: 3,634 Images: 305	I think that just takes you to the site?? What show did you do, is it in the gallery or proof section, and then what division, etc, so we can find it? Anyway before looking at pics, the fact that he will lighten up for your trainer, makes it pretty clear that there's something your doing or not doing When you ask him to slow what do you do? Do you just steadily pull on the reins with no release or no seat/leg. You said his head went up when you tried to sit deep, make sure your not DRIVING with your seat, you can sit a canter and just follow, not digging in pushing them forward, if that makes sense. I will wait for pics though __________________ You don't need a weather man to know which way the wind blows The present now will later be past, And the first one now will later be last -Bob Dylan Proud member of the thoroughbred club! I've been SNOWBALLED...owie

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03-21-2008, 07:39 AM	#2
iluvmywarmblood Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Manitoba, Canada Posts: 860 Images: 134	You could try changing his bit, or you could try changing his feed. If he is on grain/oats, that could be your problem right there, he already has a lot of energy and grain and oats just add to it. Take him off the grain/oats and put him on a complete feed. I am not sure what types of feed you have in your area, but we have front runner, and they have a feed called cool command and it was specially designed for thoroughbreds, and it helps to keep them from becoming hot(crazy) . It is worth looking into. Hope this helps.

03-21-2008, 07:56 AM	#4
wrightdanes Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 921 Images: 1	I watched a Clinton Anderson session where he worked with a heavy handed rider like yourself. If you stop and look at the problem with a different perspective, then you might find you answer. Lots of work on the flat with the horse and several times around the course and the horse ened the session relaxed and slow. What did he do and would it work for you? Maybe. As an English rider I tended to sway away from trainers that worked the western horse, but I have to tell you- Clinton is good.

03-21-2008, 08:22 AM	#6
Preppy_Ponies Senior Member+ Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: So. Cal Posts: 2,384 Images: 248	I agree with Tbtrainer, a waterford might be worth a shot. Other than that I would say go back to flatwork and get him really solid. I usually have my hunter/jumpers doing some dressage work to improve their listening skills Once he's really responding to you on the flat there's a jumping exercise I like to use. Basically just start incorporating small jumps into your flatwork. So say your cantering a circle, just find a jump to include in that circle. Then go back to more flatwork. It can help him not get so excitable while jumping. Also if your riding around in a half seat it might be a good idea to sit down and use that extra security. I know it's not what's favored in the hunter ring right now but it's better to sit and have a nice round that have a horse running away while in a half seat.

03-21-2008, 08:40 AM	#7
AtomicPenny Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Loudon, NH Posts: 603 Images: 69	If he's fine for the trainer and only rushes or leans on the bit with you...than it's you and your riding that is a bigger problem, not the horse. A harsher bit in a situation like this is, like Rythem n' Blues said, a band-aid. And a band-aid that will then need to be a dressing, to a cast, to an amputation....it will only cause you to need stronger and stronger bits as you continue riding. Better to get it fixed properly so you don't need an artificial "band-aid". Go back to basics and find out where the problem lies. Are you in a perpetual half seat? Do you grip with your knees or thighs? Are you heavy handed and unfollowing? My suspicion is that you're not riding properly and he becomes on his forehand. A horse that's on his forehand will either lean into the bit for support, or raise his head and hollow his back and evade the bit. Both of these can be misunderstood as the horse trying to "grab" it. A horse that is on their forehand is also unbalanced. To jump 3' he needs to be rock backed, collected, and engaged, which I'm assuming he's not. An unbalanced horse can very easily become nervous, and as is common with ottbs...when nervous they rush. I highly suggest going back to flat work and evaluating where you problem lies, fix that, and learn to help your horse move well. Then, and only then, should you be jumping. Start low and with simple gymnastics and inviting fences. Incorporate them into your flatwork so that there is not flat work and jumping, there should be flatwork with occasional "obstacles" in the way. Jumping is mostly flatwork, without solid basics you're round is going to be no good anyway. Do you have any pictures or video? It would allow us all to help you out better by pinpointing a problem and let us give you some better, possibly more applicable, advice Karen

03-21-2008, 03:08 PM	#8
Berkeley1 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Louisiana Posts: 301 Images: 25	Hi, thanks so much for all of the advise! After thinking about it, I do think it is me with the problem! I have tried using a deeper seet on him, but his head goes in the air and he stars hoping up and down, so my trainer said not to sit so deep. I grip with my inner thigh, but I don't think I grip with my knees. I am not sure what heavy handed means, so I can't answer that one. Here is a link to photos from the last show I attened. http://www.flashpointmediaservices.com/FlashPhotoSite/ In the 2nd, darker photo, that is the one where he took a stride out, so I was left behind. I may have some more photos somewhere on the forum. I currently don't have any video of him.

03-21-2008, 04:01 PM	#10
Banat Senior Member+ Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 1,673 Images: 48	Yeah, you are the problem, sorry. You said he goes good with the trainer, and then he's good with you for a little while after she's fixed him, then after you ride him a while he's bad again. You probably don't want to hear it, but you need to learn to use your hands better. Take more lessons from your trainer with the focus being your hands.