[ginger102005]

Umm, this may sound horrible, but she doesn't side-pass, and I dunno if she knows how to counter-canter, but I know I don't know anything about counter-cantering. Is that horrible? As far as her lead in the pasture, I will have to watch for that. The lady I got her from bought her as a 3 year old, green broke, and she didn't know enough to finish out her training. She basically just trail rode her while she had her, and let her do whatever she wanted. She is really well trained off of leg pressue, knows how to flex and how to do certain things, but as far as other, more complicated things, I have to finish out her training. She is 8 or 9, I'll have to look at her papers, and she hadn't even been asked to back under saddle until I got her August of 2006.

[wyldterv]

Originally Posted by ginger102005

...So, my question is....
Is this something that she just needs more practice to the right, or could it be an underlying problem?
If it is just a practice thing, what excercises can I do to work on it?

HOnestly this sounds like more then just mere stiffness... THAT much resistance and stiffness sounds like she needs to see the vet and/or chiropractor as it sounds like she's got pain going one somewhere that makes it hurt to go to the right.

I would address that issue FIRST and THEN once you figure out why she's sore and get that under control, I'd start her on the ground doing some simple stretching and bending/flexing exercises on the ground and THEN work up to more compicated exercises under saddle.

[Haas Horse Farm]

Originally Posted by ginger102005

Umm, this may sound horrible, but she doesn't side-pass, and I dunno if she knows how to counter-canter, but I know I don't know anything about counter-cantering. Is that horrible? As far as her lead in the pasture, I will have to watch for that. The lady I got her from bought her as a 3 year old, green broke, and she didn't know enough to finish out her training. She basically just trail rode her while she had her, and let her do whatever she wanted. She is really well trained off of leg pressue, knows how to flex and how to do certain things, but as far as other, more complicated things, I have to finish out her training. She is 8 or 9, I'll have to look at her papers, and she hadn't even been asked to back under saddle until I got her August of 2006.

Okay side passing is asking the horse to step side ways... so when you are on the ground ask the horse to move over away from you both on the front and the back. You can push on the horse but be careful as often a horse will move toward pressure when on the ground.

Counter Canter... is taking the wrong lead... on purpose. So if the horse is on the left lead make the horse switch to the right lead.

Hoenstly I think that you do not have the experience to determine what it takes to finish the horse... The fact that the horse is that older and still green is a factor. The fact that is has not been asked to take the correct leads is a factor. The fact that there could be pain issues is a factor... I would get a vet or trainer out that has worked with older green horses with issues and have them evaluate the situation.

[MaggieSue]

This sounds like a pain/physical issue to me. I'd have a vet and/or chiropractor look at her to make sure she isn't in pain somewhere.

Ditto, usually willing horses that will go one way, but not another have a physical problem-not an attitude problem.

[ginger102005]

Originally Posted by Haas Horse Farm

Okay side passing is asking the horse to step side ways... so when you are on the ground ask the horse to move over away from you both on the front and the back. You can push on the horse but be careful as often a horse will move toward pressure when on the ground.
Ok, I hope I didn't sound that stupid... lol I know what side-passing is, but she wasn't trained to do it, I thought you meant under saddle ask her to sidepass.

Counter Canter... is taking the wrong lead... on purpose. So if the horse is on the left lead make the horse switch to the right lead.
Yeah, I know what it is, just not if it is a thing to be trained for. So you just ask them to take the wrong?

Hoenstly I think that you do not have the experience to determine what it takes to finish the horse... The fact that the horse is that older and still green is a factor. The fact that is has not been asked to take the correct leads is a factor. The fact that there could be pain issues is a factor... I would get a vet or trainer out that has worked with older green horses with issues and have them evaluate the situation.
OK, I didn't mean that the way it came out, I will have a vet check her over, but as far as the training, I didn't mean *I* will finish her out. I just meant that as far as her training goes she needs to be finished. I will just be getting her in shape and then she will be going to a trainer.
I really hope I didn't sound that stupid/un-experienced. I actually am pretty experienced with horses, and have worked with many green horses, and maybe it is just me, but down here, if you go look at a *finished* horse to buy, they don't side-pass and all that, usually that is just an extra bonus, and not included in the original training. Now, I'm not saying I'm experienced enough to train, just saying I'm not a novice. Also, as far as her taking her right lead, she used to take her right lead when we were riding her in her first few months of pregnancy.

Ok, so did anything I just type make any sense.

[Haas Horse Farm]

Yes,.... LOL The point in the side passing from the ground and taking the wrong lead going the way the horse is most comfortable is to help isolate physical problems.

I think you miss understood what I was saying in that I was not trying to say that you did not know how to ride but that it might be good for you to get a professional to help you understand what is up with your horse and be able to identify if it is a physical thing or an attitude thing.

Sorry I also have to disagree as far as your statement about looking at a finished horse to buy... Any horse I buy I always ask to side pass... That is something I teach all my horses in their first 30 days of training... Side passing is a very fundamental part of any horses training... Teaching a horse to move all parts of its body independently and respond to pressure are paramount to having a broke horse. My horses learn to turn on the forehand, haunches, and side pass within 90 days at the longest... They also know how to back and you can open and close gaits off of them.

Not trying to be rude here but I guess others have different ideas about what a broke horse is... but for me a horse will go where the rider asks regardless of direction... Being green to me just means that you might have to ask it more than once to get it done and the horse might still react such as buck, snort or jump etc... whatever the horses response to a new scary thing might be.

[ginger102005]

Originally Posted by Haas Horse Farm

Yes,.... LOL The point in the side passing from the ground and taking the wrong lead going the way the horse is most comfortable is to help isolate physical problems.

I think you miss understood what I was saying in that I was not trying to say that you did not know how to ride but that it might be good for you to get a professional to help you understand what is up with your horse and be able to identify if it is a physical thing or an attitude thing.

Sorry I also have to disagree as far as your statement about looking at a finished horse to buy... Any horse I buy I always ask to side pass... That is something I teach all my horses in their first 30 days of training... Side passing is a very fundamental part of any horses training... Teaching a horse to move all parts of its body independently and respond to pressure are paramount to having a broke horse. My horses learn to turn on the forehand, haunches, and side pass within 90 days at the longest... They also know how to back and you can open and close gaits off of them.

Not trying to be rude here but I guess others have different ideas about what a broke horse is... but for me a horse will go where the rider asks regardless of direction... Being green to me just means that you might have to ask it more than once to get it done and the horse might still react such as buck, snort or jump etc... whatever the horses response to a new scary thing might be.

I wasn't trying to disagree with you, and I understand side-passing is a fundamental, I'm just saying that around here when you go to look at a horse, I have rarely seen one that knows how unless it is a nice show horse.
Green to me means the horse pretty much has no buck/spook or reaction but still hasn't learned everything he needs to.
I have followed alot of your posts Haas, and I really appreciate your advice, and I understand what you were saying, I wasn't trying to be rude, just trying to understand a little more into what you were saying. I hope you don't think that I'm rude or anything, I just didn't quite get what you were saying. Like I said, thank you for your opinion, I will get a vet/chiropracter out, and if we rule out pain or fix the pain if it's there, then the mare will probably be sent to training.

Hope there are no hard feelings....
Kasey

[Haas Horse Farm]

No problem Kasey.... I was just trying to make the point as many have found out that being green can mean totally different things based on the riders experience.

I did not think you were being rude at all. It will be interesting to know what the vet determines about your horse. LOL It is really hard to look a horse behind the keyboard... I so often wish a horse was just up the road so I could jump in the truck and drive over and see it for myself.

I bet it is just a few minor things that will get worked out once the communication gets fixed between you and the horse.

[ginger102005]

We have a horse chiropracter that owes us a session, so I think I will get her out to see Mocha first, and if she doesn't find anything, then should I still call a vet, or start working her through it? I know what you mean about being right up the road, I'm like that. Whenever you or Doublebarr post stuff about your horses, I wish I was closer. You both have some very nice horses. Hey, btw, do you stand your Palomino at stud, or only breed your own mares. You can om me if you don;t want to take over the thread with that discussion.

[NellaAnimaMia07]

i would DEFINITELY have a chiropractor look at her! I had problems with my mare, she would run me out of the barn, into the fence, etc, before she'd turn to the right. i had the chiro. look at her, and she had a joint in her neck jammed, and a part in her spine jammed that made it PAINFUL for her to turn to the right.
good luck!