Start barrel training (vs) start Cross country training first?

ArabGirl · 01-09-2007, 05:30 PM

This is kind of a tag-along to "Are arabians bad barrel racers?".
Okay, so I know Roxy could do barrels and cross country, which do I start training in first?
(Almost certain about the cc.) But should I start training barrels & poles THEN cc, or the other way around? I was thinking the lessons in one could conflict with lessons in the other, making it impossible to teach them to her or that the harder/easier one should be done first. I won't be doing it at the same time, but I don't know which one to start with. I would like suggestions for what I should look for in a trainer/instructor.

Here's what I have:

Name: Lady Roxanne (Roxy)
Age: 5
Height: 15hh
Breed: Purebred Spanish Arab
Temperment 1-10 (1 being calm, 10 high-spirited.): 5-7ish
Prev. training: It was bad training, so I say none. -She can be ridden, but doesn't know all the basics.

Currently trained: Lunging, tying, leading, can be saddle/ridden(Western . Possibly English too, in the future.) to an extent. Pivots and was listed as a "Barrel/pole prospect" in her ad. Can jump a 3' wide, 1 1/2' high harrows thingy. (Don't know exactly what it is. Redneck bro-in-law's invention.

) I've desensitized her a lot, she saddles well. I took a 2 1/2 month long break from her training for the winter, but she still is desensitized and saddles even better. (Except for cinch. Always been jittery when I tighten it for some reason. The prev. owner never said anything 'bout it.) Never bucked with me on. Doesn't bite or head-toss. Doesn't take the bit well though. Can turn left and right but weaker to the right. She an flex her head back to sniff my boot in the stirrup.

Me: 5'5", 180 lbs, fourteen. Some experience in training horses, but not enough. (I'm getting a trainer to help me.) I can ride ok but I need more training. I wear a helmet. (Most of the time.) I've never experienced being thrown or bucked, well maybe once, but I didn't go flying. I've been stepped on, pushed, pulled, and bitten before. Pretty confident and trusting with Roxy.

This stuff may or may not help, but I just don't know what to begin with.

ArabGirl · 01-09-2007, 08:18 PM

Bump. Nobody? I know that there's probly another post similar to this one. Am i alone?

tightpaycheck · 01-09-2007, 08:57 PM

Ok, I will say both with some disclaimers. why not work on barrels one day, and cross country one day? If you constantly work the barrel pattern you will sour your horse. Just like if you constantly do cross country. There are lots of things that you can do that don't involve either barrels or cross country. I think that with some care for your horse you could easily learn both at the same time and that changing things up will keep it exciting for both of you.
My disclaimers are that firstly teaching a horse a barrel pattern doesn't involve running them through it constantly. I'm sure you already knew that but since most of teaching a horse barrels is not done at top speed there is no reason it would interfere with them jumping. And secondly be very careful you don't overwork your horse. If you do barrels monday wed and friday and CC the other days you will soon have either a very excited arab or a sour one. You are working on two very physically demanding sports. There isn't any reason a horse can't do both, but I would balance it with lots of slow hacks and easy walking days to keep your horse fresh and sound.

ArabGirl · 01-09-2007, 09:22 PM

That sounds fair. I was thinking that something being taught in one, would me too similar to something taught in the other one, and she would give the wrong responce to a cue. Am I crazy for thinking this? I know my horse is really smart, but she's not perfect.

5x_SpeedLover · 01-10-2007, 04:34 PM

id say cross country first. Alot of people dont even think about training barrels till 5. Which i see your horse is, but i was just recently told a horse should be trained pleasure before barrels. To late in my case. The chances of souring your horse are probably less if you start out with crosscountry. Or maybe alternating both.

ArabGirl · 01-10-2007, 05:46 PM

UPDATE in training: Today, I rode her without my dad leading her around. (I know this sounds bad, but I wanted to see the reaction I'd get from Roxy, so please don't rip my head off.) I got on and dad led her around a few times then I thought about doing something new. So I suggested using a halter and lead ropes for a few minutes. (Maybe 3 minutes of training, if you'd call it that.) I was already on so dad just went and got another lead rope and put it on the side of her halter. From the saddle, she let me take the lead rope from the bottom loop and put it on the other side loop. (She's NEVER had this done before.) So I cued her forward with some heel pressure and she went. I rubbed her neck and praised her. I took the lead rope in my left hand and pulled it out to the side, pulling her head to the left and she turned. A little reluctant, but she did. I did this a few more times, mixed in some whoas and then I unsaddle her for the day.

crazychickmia · 01-10-2007, 05:56 PM

Hmm, I'm with Tightpaycheck!

Most importantly of all though I would do a LOT of relaxing and pleasure stuff.

We bought my mare as an allrounder specialising in eventing. Novelities (sporting games) weren't really her strong point as she got a wee bit too fizzled up, although we did okay at barrels (it was games where you had to stop and turn, that she'd stop, but then start running backwards lol - barrels, where we kept moving, she'd fly).

Bobbie would just get sooo excited about stuff though - and cross country and barrels are two sports that can really hype horses. So I would encourage plenty of calm riding in between training so she doesn't get a loose connection in her brain.

As for training...well, if it were me personally, and this is definently MPO, I would probably be doing barrels training once a week and cross country once a week and the rest just riding - working on flatwork, refining basic aids, and just pleasure riding/enjoying yourself...because that will REALLY lend itself to you. I mean, refining the aids etc - big major bonus there! And working on keeping the horse always chilled out...also really important when you're doing a couple of high-octane sports.

I'd just do my best to keep training interesting and varied. Plus training doesn't have to be in an arena - if I *was* training for barrels, out on a pleasure ride I might spot a couple of nice bushes and start turning around them, then go okay - back to the quiet ride. Same for cross country, if I see an opportune log or bank (obviously I'll check it for safety) then jump it a few times, then go - okay, that was good, back to our ride.

As for not confusing her...well, it's just back to basics. This means turn left, this means turn right, this means go faster, this means slow down, if that's in front of you, jump it, if that's beside you, turn around it.

The only time I've ever had a horse get confused between two different disciplines are: I was loping towards the gate in a western pleasure class and my mare thought it was a cross country jump (very scary moment, we kinda crashed into it head first because when I asked her to stop...she didn't!) and when practicing pole bending and flag and barrel with my TB...after we'd bended our way down and back a few times at first walk then trot, I went to do flag and barrel, and had a hard time getting Linc to trot straight down beside the poles. But he's since learn't the difference and waits to see what the rider tells him we're doing today.

Other than that...my horses have done hacking, dressage, eventing, western, jumping, novelties no problems (and all at the same time...we're, not 'isolated' but its long hours of driving to shows, so rather than specialise I just compete in whatever is local). Horses are smart, she'll learn't she's not supposed to jump over single drums or spin around jumps.

Try, see what works, if it doesn't, try something else. Mistakes can be rectified - and I can't imagine there is anything you could possibly do that couldn't be undone, otherwise rescue horses would never go on to live second lives! So if you've been doing something for ages, it's just not working or you're going backwards...try something else, maybe.

I think that's about all I can say that might possibly help you! Good luck =) Cross country rawks!

JBandRio · 01-10-2007, 05:58 PM

At her age (young) and training (about none) you need to work on basics first - a steady, responsive walk, trot, canter, and whoa. Without that you can't do anything else well.

Incorporate xc training into the regular routine once she's safe to ride out in the open. Being able to safely and calmly control her out in the open spaces will get you a long way towards maintaining her responsiveness in barrels.

ArabGirl · 01-10-2007, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazychickmia

Try, see what works, if it doesn't, try something else. Mistakes can be rectified - and I can't imagine there is anything you could possibly do that couldn't be undone, otherwise rescue horses would never go on to live second lives! So if you've been doing something for ages, it's just not working or you're going backwards...try something else, maybe

That's very encouraging to me, because I was SO SCARED that I'd make a HUGE mistake during training. Thanx a ton!

aquakiado222 · 01-10-2007, 10:23 PM

yeah i agree with varying things and basics are very important, you want to be straight coming upto those jumps and have tight enough turns both around the barrels and to tight spots, so definately refining the aids and skills play into any type of sport you decide to do which include the 2 of your interest.

01-09-2007, 05:30 PM	#1
ArabGirl Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 653 Images: 143 Blog Entries: 37	Start barrel training (vs) start Cross country training first? This is kind of a tag-along to "Are arabians bad barrel racers?". Okay, so I know Roxy could do barrels and cross country, which do I start training in first? (Almost certain about the cc.) But should I start training barrels & poles THEN cc, or the other way around? I was thinking the lessons in one could conflict with lessons in the other, making it impossible to teach them to her or that the harder/easier one should be done first. I won't be doing it at the same time, but I don't know which one to start with. I would like suggestions for what I should look for in a trainer/instructor. Here's what I have: Name: Lady Roxanne (Roxy) Age: 5 Height: 15hh Breed: Purebred Spanish Arab Temperment 1-10 (1 being calm, 10 high-spirited.): 5-7ish Prev. training: It was bad training, so I say none. -She can be ridden, but doesn't know all the basics. Currently trained: Lunging, tying, leading, can be saddle/ridden(Western . Possibly English too, in the future.) to an extent. Pivots and was listed as a "Barrel/pole prospect" in her ad. Can jump a 3' wide, 1 1/2' high harrows thingy. (Don't know exactly what it is. Redneck bro-in-law's invention.) I've desensitized her a lot, she saddles well. I took a 2 1/2 month long break from her training for the winter, but she still is desensitized and saddles even better. (Except for cinch. Always been jittery when I tighten it for some reason. The prev. owner never said anything 'bout it.) Never bucked with me on. Doesn't bite or head-toss. Doesn't take the bit well though. Can turn left and right but weaker to the right. She an flex her head back to sniff my boot in the stirrup. Me: 5'5", 180 lbs, fourteen. Some experience in training horses, but not enough. (I'm getting a trainer to help me.) I can ride ok but I need more training. I wear a helmet. (Most of the time.) I've never experienced being thrown or bucked, well maybe once, but I didn't go flying. I've been stepped on, pushed, pulled, and bitten before. Pretty confident and trusting with Roxy. This stuff may or may not help, but I just don't know what to begin with. Last edited by ArabGirl; 01-13-2007 at 02:33 PM.

01-10-2007, 04:34 PM	#5
5x_SpeedLover Senior Member+ Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: PA Posts: 1,132 Images: 72	id say cross country first. Alot of people dont even think about training barrels till 5. Which i see your horse is, but i was just recently told a horse should be trained pleasure before barrels. To late in my case. The chances of souring your horse are probably less if you start out with crosscountry. Or maybe alternating both. __________________ Step outside... summer is in full bloom<3 Last edited by 5x_SpeedLover; 01-10-2007 at 05:06 PM.

01-10-2007, 05:56 PM	#7
crazychickmia Senior Member+ Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Australia Posts: 1,358 Images: 37 Blog Entries: 1	Hmm, I'm with Tightpaycheck! Most importantly of all though I would do a LOT of relaxing and pleasure stuff. We bought my mare as an allrounder specialising in eventing. Novelities (sporting games) weren't really her strong point as she got a wee bit too fizzled up, although we did okay at barrels (it was games where you had to stop and turn, that she'd stop, but then start running backwards lol - barrels, where we kept moving, she'd fly). Bobbie would just get sooo excited about stuff though - and cross country and barrels are two sports that can really hype horses. So I would encourage plenty of calm riding in between training so she doesn't get a loose connection in her brain. As for training...well, if it were me personally, and this is definently MPO, I would probably be doing barrels training once a week and cross country once a week and the rest just riding - working on flatwork, refining basic aids, and just pleasure riding/enjoying yourself...because that will REALLY lend itself to you. I mean, refining the aids etc - big major bonus there! And working on keeping the horse always chilled out...also really important when you're doing a couple of high-octane sports. I'd just do my best to keep training interesting and varied. Plus training doesn't have to be in an arena - if I was training for barrels, out on a pleasure ride I might spot a couple of nice bushes and start turning around them, then go okay - back to the quiet ride. Same for cross country, if I see an opportune log or bank (obviously I'll check it for safety) then jump it a few times, then go - okay, that was good, back to our ride. As for not confusing her...well, it's just back to basics. This means turn left, this means turn right, this means go faster, this means slow down, if that's in front of you, jump it, if that's beside you, turn around it. The only time I've ever had a horse get confused between two different disciplines are: I was loping towards the gate in a western pleasure class and my mare thought it was a cross country jump (very scary moment, we kinda crashed into it head first because when I asked her to stop...she didn't!) and when practicing pole bending and flag and barrel with my TB...after we'd bended our way down and back a few times at first walk then trot, I went to do flag and barrel, and had a hard time getting Linc to trot straight down beside the poles. But he's since learn't the difference and waits to see what the rider tells him we're doing today. Other than that...my horses have done hacking, dressage, eventing, western, jumping, novelties no problems (and all at the same time...we're, not 'isolated' but its long hours of driving to shows, so rather than specialise I just compete in whatever is local). Horses are smart, she'll learn't she's not supposed to jump over single drums or spin around jumps. Try, see what works, if it doesn't, try something else. Mistakes can be rectified - and I can't imagine there is anything you could possibly do that couldn't be undone, otherwise rescue horses would never go on to live second lives! So if you've been doing something for ages, it's just not working or you're going backwards...try something else, maybe. I think that's about all I can say that might possibly help you! Good luck =) Cross country rawks! __________________ _...~°Mia°~..._ The journey to greatness starts not with a step... but a helping hand.

01-10-2007, 05:58 PM	#8
JBandRio Senior Member+ Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: NC Posts: 21,213 Images: 129 Blog Entries: 12	At her age (young) and training (about none) you need to work on basics first - a steady, responsive walk, trot, canter, and whoa. Without that you can't do anything else well. Incorporate xc training into the regular routine once she's safe to ride out in the open. Being able to safely and calmly control her out in the open spaces will get you a long way towards maintaining her responsiveness in barrels. __________________ - JB Acres, owned and operated by Dynamite animals. - It's a wonder horses as a whole don't just kill us all and be done with their misery. - Keep your voice soothing and low - even when things get western (buck1173) - Rio feels good - he bounced an in-and-out

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01-09-2007, 08:18 PM	#2
ArabGirl Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 653 Images: 143 Blog Entries: 37	Bump. Nobody? I know that there's probly another post similar to this one. Am i alone?

01-09-2007, 08:57 PM	#3
tightpaycheck Senior Member+ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: NE PA Posts: 1,808 Images: 2	Ok, I will say both with some disclaimers. why not work on barrels one day, and cross country one day? If you constantly work the barrel pattern you will sour your horse. Just like if you constantly do cross country. There are lots of things that you can do that don't involve either barrels or cross country. I think that with some care for your horse you could easily learn both at the same time and that changing things up will keep it exciting for both of you. My disclaimers are that firstly teaching a horse a barrel pattern doesn't involve running them through it constantly. I'm sure you already knew that but since most of teaching a horse barrels is not done at top speed there is no reason it would interfere with them jumping. And secondly be very careful you don't overwork your horse. If you do barrels monday wed and friday and CC the other days you will soon have either a very excited arab or a sour one. You are working on two very physically demanding sports. There isn't any reason a horse can't do both, but I would balance it with lots of slow hacks and easy walking days to keep your horse fresh and sound.

01-09-2007, 09:22 PM	#4
ArabGirl Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 653 Images: 143 Blog Entries: 37	That sounds fair. I was thinking that something being taught in one, would me too similar to something taught in the other one, and she would give the wrong responce to a cue. Am I crazy for thinking this? I know my horse is really smart, but she's not perfect.

01-10-2007, 05:46 PM	#6
ArabGirl Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 653 Images: 143 Blog Entries: 37	UPDATE in training: Today, I rode her without my dad leading her around. (I know this sounds bad, but I wanted to see the reaction I'd get from Roxy, so please don't rip my head off.) I got on and dad led her around a few times then I thought about doing something new. So I suggested using a halter and lead ropes for a few minutes. (Maybe 3 minutes of training, if you'd call it that.) I was already on so dad just went and got another lead rope and put it on the side of her halter. From the saddle, she let me take the lead rope from the bottom loop and put it on the other side loop. (She's NEVER had this done before.) So I cued her forward with some heel pressure and she went. I rubbed her neck and praised her. I took the lead rope in my left hand and pulled it out to the side, pulling her head to the left and she turned. A little reluctant, but she did. I did this a few more times, mixed in some whoas and then I unsaddle her for the day.

01-10-2007, 10:23 PM	#10
aquakiado222 Full Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 38	yeah i agree with varying things and basics are very important, you want to be straight coming upto those jumps and have tight enough turns both around the barrels and to tight spots, so definately refining the aids and skills play into any type of sport you decide to do which include the 2 of your interest.