[OlympiaNative]

Hi there.

I am relativly new to the horse board. I was wondering what everyones thoughts are on stallions and gelding. I come from a western horse back ground ( Ranch ect, I have barrel raced for years). Where I come from and how I was raised was if it can't work, you don't need it. All the stallions we had had to prove themselves as working horses before they were bred, therefore we gelded SEVERAL nicely bred stallions.

I was wondering what everyones opinions are on stallions. Should more be gelded? Are bloodlines really important to people anymore or say as in paints, do they just care about color.

About my horses. I have one mare that is bred yes. I bred her to one of the last standing sons of Olympia Joe. He has his Speed Index, has earned money in barrel racing and was a top 10 finisher in poles at APHA world with only 2 months training on them. He is out of a all time producing APHA daughter of Jet Deck. My mare is a QH, she has her Race ROM, a high SI, is a proven producer with foals on track and barrelracing. HE himself has not done alot. I expect to get a color foal as he is a very high color producer on QH mares. Through owner fault, his foals have not been promoted properly. I owned one of his sons and thus why I bred to him. This foal is not forsale. It will be gelded if a colt. I have been told I am silly to geld him because of what his pedigree will be, however, I am a firm beliver there are to many stallions out there now as it is.

What is everyone elses opinions... I don't want anyone to be rude or tacky, I am just simply picking your brains

[Lou3]

Oh yes there are a LOT of stallions out there being bred for the wrong reasons that should definately be gelded.
I commend your policy of only breeding proven working stallions, if only more people thought like this and didnt just keep them entire because they have a pretty colour or a famous great-grandsire regardless of their awful disposition and/or rubbish conformation/work ethic, or even just the lack of NEED to keep ANOTHER stallion entire.

[harli36]

Originally Posted by OlympiaNative

Where I come from and how I was raised was if it can't work, you don't need it. All the stallions we had had to prove themselves as working horses before they were bred, therefore we gelded SEVERAL nicely bred stallions.

I love how you said "working" because personally a show record is nice but doesn't hold much water for me. There are too many variables involved with showing so that not always will a good horse win and not always will a bad horse loose. But a good horse will be good at home most of the time and a poor horse will be poor at home most of the time. To me how the horse works at home, is what is most important.

Should more be gelded?

DEFINETLY!!! But IME there are far more mares who should never be bred.

Are bloodlines really important to people anymore or say as in paints, do they just care about color.

The breed that I am in love with is Morgans, and yes in that breed bloodlines is very important to me because I care about preserving the breed as what it was originally and there are very few lines that are pure anymore. So yes in that breed I do care about bloodlines.

But I'm starting to research the Friesian breed and would like to buy a yearling in the next year or two. Bloodlines are farily important to me because that is usually indicitive of what the horse will be good at. Some lines are more driving lines and others are more riding lines some are old type and some are more modern. So to a degree I keep an eye out for the bloodlines, but I don't plan on breeding this animal so if I find a horse that has the conformation and temperment that I like then I don't give a hoot what it's bloodlines are.

[Mutrok]

I think there are a lot of factors to take into consideration in the decision to geld or not and often times they are glanced over or excuses are made to justify keeping something intact that should not be. Everything said above I fully agree with. One thing that has not been mentioned is considering what this particular horse has to offer that is not already available out there. What can they bring to the breed and what are the goals in breeding them. A good breeder know what they are after, what they are doing to improve the breed and they can prove it with the success of their stallion or mare's offspring.

Another side not but on to consider is being responsible as a stallion owner in the mares that you are allowing to breed to your stud. I have come across I MANY stallion owners who don't ever take a look at the mare they are breeding to. And we tend to concentrate on the sire's accomplishments, breeding, conformation, temperment it is equally important to consider the mare you are breeding. This is evident when you look at how a horse is advertised. More attention is given to the sire and the grand sires not the mare line.

[Acme Acres]

Originally Posted by OlympiaNative

I was wondering what everyones opinions are on stallions. Should more be gelded? YES!!! Are bloodlines really important to people anymore or say as in paints, do they just care about color. Yes, to the smart people. Those who look just at color should most likely not have a horse unless it IS a gelding.

About my horses. I have one mare that is bred yes. I bred her to one of the last standing sons of Olympia Joe. He has his Speed Index, has earned money in barrel racing and was a top 10 finisher in poles at APHA world with only 2 months training on them. He is out of a all time producing APHA daughter of Jet Deck. My mare is a QH, she has her Race ROM, a high SI, is a proven producer with foals on track and barrelracing. HE himself has not done alot. I expect to get a color foal as he is a very high color producer on QH mares. Through owner fault, his foals have not been promoted properly. I owned one of his sons and thus why I bred to him. This foal is not forsale. It will be gelded if a colt. I have been told I am silly to geld him because of what his pedigree will be, however, I am a firm beliver there are to many stallions out there now as it is.

What is everyone elses opinions... I don't want anyone to be rude or tacky, I am just simply picking your brains

Really, it depends on the horse and the situation. Many stallions don't produce something fantastic themselves, BUT their daughters or sons turn out to be great producers, and it's never hurt to be a stallion on the leading Broodmare sire's list. The fact that a horse does or doesn't have a show record is all relative to what you do. Show records really equal "owner has money to put into the showing of the horse". When it comes down to it, personally I'd give a well bred, well conformed colt a chance to prove himself. What happens if only the horses w/show records are producing and the AWESOME stallion that got injured and never made it to the arena or track was gelded just because they didn't prove themselves?

[harli36]

Originally Posted by Acme Acres

The fact that a horse does or doesn't have a show record is all relative to what you do. Show records really equal "owner has money to put into the showing of the horse". When it comes down to it, personally I'd give a well bred, well conformed colt a chance to prove himself. What happens if only the horses w/show records are producing and the AWESOME stallion that got injured and never made it to the arena or track was gelded just because they didn't prove themselves?

But the OP said WORKING not showing, so I at least took that to mean that what is important to the OP is how well the horse performs at home. I agree with you wholeheartedly though that a studs show record is not the end-all-be-all to determine if he's a good enough horse to breed or not.

One of the studs I knew who was the best Morgan stud that I have come across wasn't shown simply because his owner's could care less about showing. But he had great conformation, performed excellently at home, a WONDERFUL temperment, rare quality bloodlines, the list could go on and on. I would hate to pass up a wonderful horse like him just because I was looking for a horse with a show record.

[Acme Acres]

Showing can mean anything. Working/showing... same thing in my book.

[doublebarr]

Coming from a ranch perspective myself, I live by the motto:

Good studs make EXCELLENT geldings!

Breeding studs better be more than Excellent.

[Haas Horse Farm]

IMHO many people just breed to be breeding and do not plan for the offspring. They do not consider confirmation or pedigree or anything else. They breed mutt horses... even some of those have a pedigree!!!

It is not the confirmation of the mare or stallion but the confirmation and the abilities of the offspring. Granted beauty is in the eye of the owner BUT there should be standards for every breed. I think that is a really big problem with AQHA there is no universal standard like there was years ago when the breed was formed. Every horse had to prove themselves to be papered.

[Mutrok]

Originally Posted by Haas Horse Farm

Granted beauty is in the eye of the owner BUT there should be standards for every breed. I think that is a really big problem with AQHA there is no universal standard like there was years ago when the breed was formed. Every horse had to prove themselves to be papered.

Totally agree!! I think many breeds would be greatly improved with a universal standard and the horse shown at inspection and approved for breeding!!