[Haas Horse Farm]

Almost every stallion owner I know of gets paid before the mare gets bred... especially with the economy being the way it is today. As for getting the money back if the mare cannot become pregnant... you would have to be able to prove the mare is sound to breed with most stallion owners. Many I know with stallions have them tested anyway... even if they do not ship on them. However that said if I had an older stallion and I knew that he was still fertile as my own mares were getting checked in foal by him... I would think that was proof enough. Collecting and testing a stallion is $160 for me to pay. Why would I want to pay that if I know my stallion can get the job done? Pregnancy is a thing that requires cooperation on both the mare and stallions part. In order to collect and test the stallion the stallion owner would have to have a mare in heat to collect off of and have a vet who was equipped to test the semen. Not all vets are set up that way. Personally if you wanted me to have my stallion tested when I know for a fact that he was getting mares bred this season I would probably tell you to find another stallion... as it would cost me too much to get it done and might cause too much stress for an older stallion that has never been collected. Between the fuel cost to haul him to the vet and what the vet would charge me it would not be worth it to me.

[Blondehorse]

However that said if I had an older stallion and I knew that he was still fertile as my own mares were getting checked in foal by him... I would think that was proof enough.

I fully agree, and if that was the case, then I wouldn't ask them to test him. I don't know if he has foals due this year, or next, so I asked them if he does, and if not, what measures they will be taking to ensure that he is still breeding sound. I haven't gotten a reply yet, and have a sneaking suspicion that I never will... but I guess we'll see!

[Acme Acres]

Originally Posted by Blondehorse

LOL, maybe for some people, but for others, it gets pretty expensive to leave mare at the stud farm for months trying to get her bred!!
Thanks for the reply!

You don't have to leave the mare at the stud farm for months. Breed her, take her home, and you have no guarantee that it's not the mare that's the problem if she doesn't get in foal.

[Blondehorse]

Originally Posted by Acme Acres

You don't have to leave the mare at the stud farm for months. Breed her, take her home, and you have no guarantee that it's not the mare that's the problem if she doesn't get in foal.

That would work, except that I don't have a trailer, and will be paying someone else to haul her. I would want to give it at least another try if she didn't settle the first time, so bringing her home and taking her back each time would be a lot of hassle, and maybe just about as expensive as leaving her there, I don't know.
Otherwise, it would be a good idea, though!

[Blondehorse]

do you guys in america pay up front for stud fees?? before mare is confirmed pregnant?

here mostly its done that you do not pay stud feed until you have a 45 day preg test positive..

Shaiarab, so in Australia, if your mare is bred and doesn't get pregnant, you don't owe a stud fee? Or how does that work?

[shaiarabs]

we pay a handling fee up front thats for our mare being handled and bred

they also get board for full care of the mare while there

but the usual track is that on a 45 day preg test, is when your stud fee is due

in general the mare is still on the property until after the preg test

if you wish to take the mare earlier then the stud fee has to be paid before she leaves

[County]

I charge the stud fee when the mare is picked up after breeding also mare care is paid then. How ever starting this year with my 26 year old stud I'm not collecting my stud fee until theres a live foal on the ground. With his age I don't want to have to deal with any rebreeds should he die or quit settling mares. I had thought about just letting the mare owner rebreed to one of our other stallions but some want certain bloodlines.

[Arco]

[quote=Blondehorse;2876107]Okay, I was thinking that live foal guarantee might mean that IF your mare gets pregnant, then the foal is guaranteed to be alive, and stand and nurse.
Just curious, though... say if your mare is bred multiple times and still doesn't get pregnant, and you decide not to try again, what does the live foal guarantee mean then? Do you get your money back, or some of it, anyway, since you didn't get a live foal, or does it depend on the stallion owner?[/quote]

As far as I am aware (unless contract states otherwise), if you decide to not keep trying then you would not get your money refunded - after all, it would be impossible for the stallion to get a mare pregnant if the mare is no longer being covered. Like I said though, it would depend on the contract because there are bound to be time limits of some sort in some cases. Also, if the stallions fertility has not been tested and it happened that he was no longer fertile, you could go on trying forever and it just isn't going to happen.

I guess it's down to personal preference for you on this one. Just how nice is the stallion, how good are his achievements and breeding, and is he nice enough to be worth taking the risk on, when for similar money you could get one that comes with testing and guarantees?

[Blondehorse]

Originally Posted by County

I charge the stud fee when the mare is picked up after breeding also mare care is paid then. How ever starting this year with my 26 year old stud I'm not collecting my stud fee until theres a live foal on the ground. With his age I don't want to have to deal with any rebreeds should he die or quit settling mares. I had thought about just letting the mare owner rebreed to one of our other stallions but some want certain bloodlines.

That's really cool of you. I don't think many people would handle it like that!

[quote=Arco;2881751]

Originally Posted by Blondehorse

Okay, I was thinking that live foal guarantee might mean that IF your mare gets pregnant, then the foal is guaranteed to be alive, and stand and nurse.
Just curious, though... say if your mare is bred multiple times and still doesn't get pregnant, and you decide not to try again, what does the live foal guarantee mean then? Do you get your money back, or some of it, anyway, since you didn't get a live foal, or does it depend on the stallion owner?[/quote]

As far as I am aware (unless contract states otherwise), if you decide to not keep trying then you would not get your money refunded - after all, it would be impossible for the stallion to get a mare pregnant if the mare is no longer being covered. Like I said though, it would depend on the contract because there are bound to be time limits of some sort in some cases. Also, if the stallions fertility has not been tested and it happened that he was no longer fertile, you could go on trying forever and it just isn't going to happen.

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking--a live foal contract that only allows me to breed back that next year, or substitute another mare, wouldn't be much good to me if the stallion is infertile.

I guess it's down to personal preference for you on this one. Just how nice is the stallion, how good are his achievements and breeding, and is he nice enough to be worth taking the risk on, when for similar money you could get one that comes with testing and guarantees?

I really do like this stallion... loved the foal of his that I saw... but it still seems like a pretty big risk. I did get a reply from the owners, and they said that they have no reason to think that he has lost his potency, and that I will have to do what I think is best. IOW, they're not going to test him. I'm going to talk to my vet about it, and see what he thinks.
It's sort of funny--only in a not-so-funny kind of way --I actually was planning on breeding her to a different stallion, who was going to be tested for fertility, but then they found out that he is an SCID carrier. My vet drew blood to test my mare, but even if we find out that she is clear, I have mixed feelings about breeding to a carrier. I guess I'll just have to wait and talk to my vet, and go from there.
In the meantime, more thoughts from all of you would be great. What are the chances that a healthy 21-year-old stallion, who has not been bred in the last four years, would have gone infertile, or at least become significantly less fertile?
I know that it's sometimes harder to get mares in foal when they have not been bred for numerous years. Does the same situation have a similar affect on stallions, or not?

[Lou3]

I think since he's only going to be covering one mare its probably not financially viable for them to go to the expense of testing him.
If you really want this stallion then I would ask if they are willing to provide a cast-iron live foal guarantee in light of his age and him not having any proof of fertility for four years.
That way at least if she doesnt take you only lose your mare care money and not the stud fee as well. Although IMO 21 is not particularly old for a stud and I would not be overly concerned.