[Blondehorse]

Originally Posted by Kicks

I don't see anything wrong with asking for proof that an older stallion, with no recent foals on the ground, is indeed fertile. By the same token they should insist that the mare is 'clean' and breeding sound.

If their stud fee is listed as live cover only (you'd still have mare care cost at their farm), then IF they are willing to take their stallion to a collection site then it would be your responsibility to cover all costs of the collection, shipping and insemination

If I do, in fact, breed to this stallion, I would be taking the mare over for live cover, not doing it by AI. I would just like to see him collected and tested, to make sure he is still able to sire foals, before I would breed to him.
So, if the owners are standing their stallion at public stud, shouldn't it be their financial responsibility to make sure the stallion is fertile before he breeds mares, not mine? I mean, if I'm paying $750 + mare care to get my mare bred, I want to know that he's capable of getting the job done, and I don't think that a stallion owner should expect a client to pay for getting their stallion tested. Maybe I'm wrong, but I just think that if you own a stallion, it should be your responsibility to ensure that he is fertile before using someone else's mare as the 'guinea pig'--and taking their money. Of course, I've never owned a stallion, so maybe I would feel differently about it if I did. I can see that maybe if that is the only mare he will be breeding this year, it wouldn't really be worth it to get him tested... and that's fine, but if that is the way they feel, I won't take my mare to him. Too much money involved, and too great a risk of not getting a foal!

[Kicks]

Originally Posted by Blondehorse

If I do, in fact, breed to this stallion, I would be taking the mare over for live cover, not doing it by AI. I would just like to see him collected and tested, to make sure he is still able to sire foals, before I would breed to him.
So, if the owners are standing their stallion at public stud, shouldn't it be their financial responsibility to make sure the stallion is fertile before he breeds mares, not mine? I mean, if I'm paying $750 + mare care to get my mare bred, I want to know that he's capable of getting the job done, and I don't think that a stallion owner should expect a client to pay for getting their stallion tested. Maybe I'm wrong, but I just think that if you own a stallion, it should be your responsibility to ensure that he is fertile before using someone else's mare as the 'guinea pig'--and taking their money. Of course, I've never owned a stallion, so maybe I would feel differently about it if I did. I can see that maybe if that is the only mare he will be breeding this year, it wouldn't really be worth it to get him tested... and that's fine, but if that is the way they feel, I won't take my mare to him. Too much money involved, and too great a risk of not getting a foal!

Let's go back to what someone else said - that's where the "Live Foal Guarantee" comes into play. Perhaps it is a matter of symantics - testing a stallion's potency is not the same as collecting. Testing does involve getting semen and then testing the viability of it. Collecting involves either cooled shipped semen or semen for freezing - to me anyway. Kicks was 'tested' and was very viable for live cover (did not do all the test for cooled shipping or frozen as I was only going to do live cover this year) - but he was not 'collected' as there was no mare to ship to nor was it frozen for future use. It is also your responsibility to ensure that your mare is breeding sound!

Hate to tell you this but males retain the ability to procreate MUCH longer that females do.

[Blondehorse]

Let's go back to what someone else said - that's where the "Live Foal Guarantee" comes into play.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's my understanding that a live foal guarantee is not the same thing as a pregnancy guarantee. Am I mistaken, and a live foal guarantee also guarantees that the mare will get pregnant?

Perhaps it is a matter of symantics - testing a stallion's potency is not the same as collecting. Testing does involve getting semen and then testing the viability of it. Collecting involves either cooled shipped semen or semen for freezing - to me anyway. Kicks was 'tested' and was very viable for live cover (did not do all the test for cooled shipping or frozen as I was only going to do live cover this year) - but he was not 'collected' as there was no mare to ship to nor was it frozen for future use.

I'm not familiar with all the terms, so I guess I used the wrong ones--sorry! However they do it, the main thing is that I would like verification that his semen is still viable.

It is also your responsibility to ensure that your mare is breeding sound!

I realize that. This isn't my first time breeding. My mare has been cultured and biopsied, as well as a cytology smear. Also, the reason I have not had her bred already this year was that I wanted to make sure she was cycling regularly, as she has had problems with that in the past. So, my vet and I are doing everything possible to ensure that she is ready for breeding, and has the best chance possible of getting pregnant--another reason why I want to make sure that the stallion is just as ready.

Hate to tell you this but males retain the ability to procreate MUCH longer that females do.

I also realize that, but age is still a factor in fertility, and since he has not sired a foal in four years, I'm not willing to blindly take the risk that he's not still fertile. That's just my choice, and maybe yours would be different, but that's okay, not everyone has to feel the same way about it.

[Kicks]

Originally Posted by Blondehorse

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's my understanding that a live foal guarantee is not the same thing as a pregnancy guarantee. Am I mistaken, and a live foal guarantee also guarantees that the mare will get pregnant?

They are not the same. A 'pregancy guarantee' only says that you mare is confirmed in foal. It says nothing about if she 'slips' the foal before term. A 'live foal guarantee' normally means that you get a viable foal that stands and nurses. There are variables in contracts as to what happens if you don't get a viable/living foal - rebreeding or refund.

[RiddleMeThis]

You both said the same thing. A live foal guarantee INCLUDES the pregnancy guarantee because the mare has to be pregnant to foal lol, but it doesnt work the other way around.

[Blondehorse]

Originally Posted by RiddleMeThis

You both said the same thing. A live foal guarantee INCLUDES the pregnancy guarantee because the mare has to be pregnant to foal lol, but it doesnt work the other way around.

Okay, I was thinking that live foal guarantee might mean that IF your mare gets pregnant, then the foal is guaranteed to be alive, and stand and nurse.
Just curious, though... say if your mare is bred multiple times and still doesn't get pregnant, and you decide not to try again, what does the live foal guarantee mean then? Do you get your money back, or some of it, anyway, since you didn't get a live foal, or does it depend on the stallion owner?

[RiddleMeThis]

Originally Posted by Blondehorse

Okay, I was thinking that live foal guarantee might mean that IF your mare gets pregnant, then the foal is guaranteed to be alive, and stand and nurse.
Just curious, though... say if your mare is bred multiple times and still doesn't get pregnant, and you decide not to try again, what does the live foal guarantee mean then? Do you get your money back, or some of it, anyway, since you didn't get a live foal, or does it depend on the stallion owner?

Depends on the SO.

[Kicks]

Originally Posted by Blondehorse

Okay, I was thinking that live foal guarantee might mean that IF your mare gets pregnant, then the foal is guaranteed to be alive, and stand and nurse.
Just curious, though... say if your mare is bred multiple times and still doesn't get pregnant, and you decide not to try again, what does the live foal guarantee mean then? Do you get your money back, or some of it, anyway, since you didn't get a live foal, or does it depend on the stallion owner?

Depends on the CONTRACT.

[shaiarabs]

do you guys in america pay up front for stud fees?? before mare is confirmed pregnant?

here mostly its done that you do not pay stud feed until you have a 45 day preg test positive..

so maybe you can put that in the contact that on positive preg test at so many days you will pay the said stud fee

[RiddleMeThis]

Originally Posted by shaiarabs

do you guys in america pay up front for stud fees?? before mare is confirmed pregnant?

here mostly its done that you do not pay stud feed until you have a 45 day preg test positive..

so maybe you can put that in the contact that on positive preg test at so many days you will pay the said stud fee

All the SO that I know of, take money up front. The ones that didnt at one point, now do because of people not paying.