Solo's knee

Equineomite · 07-13-2006, 11:42 AM

Well, this poor old man just can't catch a break. Or rather he did catch a break--his knee is apparently broken.

For those who haven't seen my other posts, Solo is 28 and had to be moved to a new place last year from where he's lived since he was about 5. He wasn't doing well on the new place, had lost a lot of weight to the point where he was skin and bones, and the love of his life, Kelly, died last month due to colic. So my parents brought him and the other two horses home last Sunday evening.

Well, Monday they noticed he was limping. We thought maybe he had an abcess. The vet came out today and diagnosed a broken knee. He didn't do an x-ray, but we trust this vet and he's been our vet for over 20 years.

He put him on bute and banamine and put him in a pen that has a little hill in it that we are hoping he will be able to lay down on. We're hoping for the best. The vet said this can happen when they're just walking across the pasture. I'm assuming it happened in the trailer on the way home. We didn't notice him limping when we took him out of the trailer, but we only walked him about 30 steps from the trailer to the pen.

So does anyone have any experience with this kind of thing? The vet said there's no surgery to fix it. I don't remember the specific diagnosis, as I was in shock and getting it second hand from my mom. Something about something twisting in there? I know the word "broken knee" was used, but then it seemed like she was talking about a ligament or cartilage or something.

Do you think a horse this old, who's already lost more weight than he can afford to lose and who is just now adapting to life without the horse that's been his shadow for the past 20 years can recover? He seemed so happy to be back home in the pasture he knew. His eyes just lost that glazed look when he realized he was home. I wish we could have had at least one good week.

I guess on the bright side at least with him being so underweight it's less for the knee to have to support.

ches · 07-13-2006, 11:55 AM

I'd call the vet and get it first hand. It sounds like you have a good relationship with your vet and I'm sure he'll be happy to go over it all with you first hand.

"Broken down" is a term that is used when race horses tear ligaments, so it could be that "broken" doesn't necessarily mean broken bones. Certainly if the vet didn't recommend putting him down immediately that's a good sign. Maybe his old bones won't heal well, but perhaps he can see out his days quite happily with a bit of a wobble and limp.

You might have some concern over tendon injury if he's putting all his weight on his other leg, particularly when he sleeps (he almost certainly won't lay down to sleep with the injury; few older horses lay down anyway) so ask your vet if you should bandage both front legs at night.

I'd give him at least 6 weeks to see how he adapts to being home and his injury. If he's going downhill with your vet's advice you can consider other options, but this guy is your friend and he's happy to be home so I'd give him a chance. He could blossom.

Blistering Winds · 07-13-2006, 11:57 AM

However, being under weight will also inhibit the healing process.

First, as old as he is, I would request a blood workup. Make sure EVERYTHING else is working right.....to try to explain the weight loss.

Many old horses, the GI tract just doesn't absorb....so you have to either modfy the diet TREMENDOUSLY, or put the horse down before he/she starves to death. (Which in my opinion, is NOT humane....the allowing to die at home "peacefully" by his body totally just not getting what it needs)

Then, make a decision on the knee. If the horse is moving, able to eat, drink, and be ok off meds, then go for it. See what happens. Especially if the vet is comfy. If the horse has to be buted the rest of his life, you are just adding MORE problems to the fire pit.

Equineomite · 07-13-2006, 06:36 PM

I just got back from seeing him. I guess before he wasn't putting ANY weight on the left front. Now that he's on the bute and banamine, he will put weight on it but favors it a LOT. He was grazing in the small paddock/pen where they're keeping him.

I spoke to the vet, and he really didn't sound optimistic. He said what happened was that due to osteoarthritis, and maybe a bump or twist in the trailer, he popped his radial carpal bone in his knee out of alignment. He said it really pops when you bend the knee. The plan is to keep him on the pain killers and anti-inflammatories for 5 days and re-evaluate. If he's not significantly better, he will probably have to be put down. He didn't run any blood tests, but he said he didn't suspect any liver or kidney problems. His color is good and his heart rate is normal. He's just in overall poor condition as evidenced by the weight loss.

At one point when the mares moved off in the back pasture, he didn't like not being able to see them and started to actually pace. I went out to whistle them up and when I turned around to look at him, he was actually trotting. I know that's not a good thing for the knee, but the fact that he did it seemed to indicate that the pain isn't too extreme.

My daughters and I all three brushed him for a long time loose in the pen, not making him take any steps he didn't want to. We even gave him a "sponge bath" with a bucket and brush because it was hot in that pen but I didn't want to hose him down in case it would make him move around too much. Then my parents came home and we fed.

He's getting the bute in powder form morning and evening and a shot of banamine. He didn't eat most of his feed, but I think that's more because he didn't like the taste of the meds than him being off his feed, because he's definitely grazing and ate all his hay. He will probably finish his grain when he realizes he's out of hay and we closed him off from the part of the pen where he can graze.

Well, at least he's home and knows we love him. I really hope he'll make a miraculous recovery, but if not I feel good that he at least got to see home again.

ches · 07-13-2006, 07:41 PM

If the bone is popped out of alignment is it something a chiropractor can help?

Equineomite · 07-17-2006, 09:27 AM

Update on Solo:

I saw him over the weekend, on Saturday. He is still on the bute and banamine, twice a day. He was putting more weight on it than he was the last time I saw him, which was Thursday, but he still wasn't eating his grain, even though they were no longer putting the bute on the grain, but giving it to him mixed with water in a syringe. He was eating hay (both alfalfa and coastal) and the oats. I was really concerned about him not eating his grain because he's already so underweight and I know older horses don't process their protiens that well.

However, I just talked to Mom, and she said they had offered him Safe Choice (we'd decided to switch all of them to that) and he is eating that now. So I guess I'm slightly more optimistic than I was Thursday. I was pretty sure at that time that we'd have to put him down. My guess is that he still probably has less than a 50% chance, but maybe since he's putting weight on the leg (on bute, of course) we can nurse him through it. The vet was out of town today, so we'll have to wait until tomorrow to see what he thinks.

I'd definitely like to hear any opinions, even if they're not optimistic (but especially if they ARE optimistic yet realistic). I appreciate the responses so far. I didn't know there was a such thing as an equine chiropractor, but I think if there were any treatment for this, our vet would have known about it and mentioned it. He's seen it plenty of times before. In fact, he said he had one client who actually saw when it happened to their horse as it was walking across the pasture and they were watching. The leg just gave out. Solo's wasn't that sudden. First he was just limping, but the next day he wouldn't put any weight on it.

07-13-2006, 11:42 AM	#1
Equineomite Full Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 38 Images: 2	Solo's knee Well, this poor old man just can't catch a break. Or rather he did catch a break--his knee is apparently broken. For those who haven't seen my other posts, Solo is 28 and had to be moved to a new place last year from where he's lived since he was about 5. He wasn't doing well on the new place, had lost a lot of weight to the point where he was skin and bones, and the love of his life, Kelly, died last month due to colic. So my parents brought him and the other two horses home last Sunday evening. Well, Monday they noticed he was limping. We thought maybe he had an abcess. The vet came out today and diagnosed a broken knee. He didn't do an x-ray, but we trust this vet and he's been our vet for over 20 years. He put him on bute and banamine and put him in a pen that has a little hill in it that we are hoping he will be able to lay down on. We're hoping for the best. The vet said this can happen when they're just walking across the pasture. I'm assuming it happened in the trailer on the way home. We didn't notice him limping when we took him out of the trailer, but we only walked him about 30 steps from the trailer to the pen. So does anyone have any experience with this kind of thing? The vet said there's no surgery to fix it. I don't remember the specific diagnosis, as I was in shock and getting it second hand from my mom. Something about something twisting in there? I know the word "broken knee" was used, but then it seemed like she was talking about a ligament or cartilage or something. Do you think a horse this old, who's already lost more weight than he can afford to lose and who is just now adapting to life without the horse that's been his shadow for the past 20 years can recover? He seemed so happy to be back home in the pasture he knew. His eyes just lost that glazed look when he realized he was home. I wish we could have had at least one good week. I guess on the bright side at least with him being so underweight it's less for the knee to have to support.

07-13-2006, 11:57 AM	#3
Blistering Winds Senior Member+ Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Augusta, Kansas Posts: 32,523 Images: 867 Blog Entries: 18	However, being under weight will also inhibit the healing process. First, as old as he is, I would request a blood workup. Make sure EVERYTHING else is working right.....to try to explain the weight loss. Many old horses, the GI tract just doesn't absorb....so you have to either modfy the diet TREMENDOUSLY, or put the horse down before he/she starves to death. (Which in my opinion, is NOT humane....the allowing to die at home "peacefully" by his body totally just not getting what it needs) Then, make a decision on the knee. If the horse is moving, able to eat, drink, and be ok off meds, then go for it. See what happens. Especially if the vet is comfy. If the horse has to be buted the rest of his life, you are just adding MORE problems to the fire pit. __________________ A good horse will stand beside you year after year. A good owner will stand beside their horse year after year.....

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07-13-2006, 11:55 AM	#2
ches Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 2,472 Images: 38	I'd call the vet and get it first hand. It sounds like you have a good relationship with your vet and I'm sure he'll be happy to go over it all with you first hand. "Broken down" is a term that is used when race horses tear ligaments, so it could be that "broken" doesn't necessarily mean broken bones. Certainly if the vet didn't recommend putting him down immediately that's a good sign. Maybe his old bones won't heal well, but perhaps he can see out his days quite happily with a bit of a wobble and limp. You might have some concern over tendon injury if he's putting all his weight on his other leg, particularly when he sleeps (he almost certainly won't lay down to sleep with the injury; few older horses lay down anyway) so ask your vet if you should bandage both front legs at night. I'd give him at least 6 weeks to see how he adapts to being home and his injury. If he's going downhill with your vet's advice you can consider other options, but this guy is your friend and he's happy to be home so I'd give him a chance. He could blossom.

07-13-2006, 06:36 PM	#4
Equineomite Full Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 38 Images: 2	I just got back from seeing him. I guess before he wasn't putting ANY weight on the left front. Now that he's on the bute and banamine, he will put weight on it but favors it a LOT. He was grazing in the small paddock/pen where they're keeping him. I spoke to the vet, and he really didn't sound optimistic. He said what happened was that due to osteoarthritis, and maybe a bump or twist in the trailer, he popped his radial carpal bone in his knee out of alignment. He said it really pops when you bend the knee. The plan is to keep him on the pain killers and anti-inflammatories for 5 days and re-evaluate. If he's not significantly better, he will probably have to be put down. He didn't run any blood tests, but he said he didn't suspect any liver or kidney problems. His color is good and his heart rate is normal. He's just in overall poor condition as evidenced by the weight loss. At one point when the mares moved off in the back pasture, he didn't like not being able to see them and started to actually pace. I went out to whistle them up and when I turned around to look at him, he was actually trotting. I know that's not a good thing for the knee, but the fact that he did it seemed to indicate that the pain isn't too extreme. My daughters and I all three brushed him for a long time loose in the pen, not making him take any steps he didn't want to. We even gave him a "sponge bath" with a bucket and brush because it was hot in that pen but I didn't want to hose him down in case it would make him move around too much. Then my parents came home and we fed. He's getting the bute in powder form morning and evening and a shot of banamine. He didn't eat most of his feed, but I think that's more because he didn't like the taste of the meds than him being off his feed, because he's definitely grazing and ate all his hay. He will probably finish his grain when he realizes he's out of hay and we closed him off from the part of the pen where he can graze. Well, at least he's home and knows we love him. I really hope he'll make a miraculous recovery, but if not I feel good that he at least got to see home again.

07-13-2006, 07:41 PM	#5
ches Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 2,472 Images: 38	If the bone is popped out of alignment is it something a chiropractor can help?

07-17-2006, 09:27 AM	#6
Equineomite Full Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 38 Images: 2	Update on Solo: I saw him over the weekend, on Saturday. He is still on the bute and banamine, twice a day. He was putting more weight on it than he was the last time I saw him, which was Thursday, but he still wasn't eating his grain, even though they were no longer putting the bute on the grain, but giving it to him mixed with water in a syringe. He was eating hay (both alfalfa and coastal) and the oats. I was really concerned about him not eating his grain because he's already so underweight and I know older horses don't process their protiens that well. However, I just talked to Mom, and she said they had offered him Safe Choice (we'd decided to switch all of them to that) and he is eating that now. So I guess I'm slightly more optimistic than I was Thursday. I was pretty sure at that time that we'd have to put him down. My guess is that he still probably has less than a 50% chance, but maybe since he's putting weight on the leg (on bute, of course) we can nurse him through it. The vet was out of town today, so we'll have to wait until tomorrow to see what he thinks. I'd definitely like to hear any opinions, even if they're not optimistic (but especially if they ARE optimistic yet realistic). I appreciate the responses so far. I didn't know there was a such thing as an equine chiropractor, but I think if there were any treatment for this, our vet would have known about it and mentioned it. He's seen it plenty of times before. In fact, he said he had one client who actually saw when it happened to their horse as it was walking across the pasture and they were watching. The leg just gave out. Solo's wasn't that sudden. First he was just limping, but the next day he wouldn't put any weight on it.