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Discuss So what's a dead broke horse??? at the Horse Training forum - Horse Forums.

I read in John Lyons Perfect horse magazine that a dead broke horse was one ...
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    So what's a dead broke horse???

    I read in John Lyons Perfect horse magazine that a dead broke horse was one that had had over 1000 hours of under saddle time. Do you all agree?

    Or what's your definition of dead broke? Now remember...I am not implying bomb proof but dead broke. In the magazine it had a picture of a kid about 4 years old leading this huge horse.
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    I saw that article and recently had it shoved in my face by/my DH.....LOL...He still thinks we should not have gotten Annie Oakley.

    He was saying to me we don't need an extra horse!

    I liked John Lyons definition a lot!

    Gayle

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    hmm i dunno... but i dissagree with the 1000 hours under saddle... think bess has had way more then that, but she is still stupid lol... this thread should be interesting lol
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    I'm a big fan of John Lyons; I get Perfect Horse and I own most of his books.

    I think it depends on the hours under saddle myself though. I would not call a racehorse with a thousand hours on the track "dead-broke" for example.

    I think of "dead-broke" as not necessarily a "finished" horse, but one that understands cues and is solid and fairly trustworthy under saddle with most riders.
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    I think its a combination of time spend under saddle and on the ground as well as taking into consideration the horses ago, mindest and temperment.

    I consider our older mare dead broke but to someone watching her? She looks like a fruitcake because that's just what kind of horse she is. I've known horses that were placid teddy bears on the ground and undersaddle, and very well trained, that would occasionally just get a screw loose and act up out of nowhere. The same thing goes for horses that seem high energy, some of those horses I would trust with my son when I wouldn't with the previous type.

    Then you have to enter in the fact that everyone has a differing opinion of what dead broke means.

    My opinion? I don't believe a horse can ever be dead broke. There is always something more we can teach them, or something to continue working on with them. 1000 hours might ensure that you're not going to get bucked off but in the span of a horses lifetime, 1000 hours is relatively no time at all. But that's just me, I've always hated time limits in terms of hours in the saddle working with a horse.
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    I consider a horse that will lope, jog or trot, and whoa on a light cue broke. They also need to turn easily, and neck rein if they are western. They should be able to leave their buddies, and ride alone or with other horses. They should be able to walk over poles or logs on the ground, move off your legs, and generally be safe to handle for everything. If they are missing any of this, or not consistent I would still consider them green.Also I would consider them green if they resist the bit or your leg, crowhop, buck rear, or suddenly sidepass without warning at any time for any reason.
    If they can do all this with almost any rider and don't spook at just about anything I consider them dead broke.
    If they can collect themselves, rate their speed, have the correct headset for their discipline, sidepass and pivot, turn on haunches, cross obstacles and water, drag something...usually a tire or haybale,tie quietly ect...then I consider them a finished horse.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tightpaycheck
    I consider a horse that will lope, jog or trot, and whoa on a light cue broke. They also need to turn easily, and neck rein if they are western. They should be able to leave their buddies, and ride alone or with other horses. They should be able to walk over poles or logs on the ground, move off your legs, and generally be safe to handle for everything. If they are missing any of this, or not consistent I would still consider them green.Also I would consider them green if they resist the bit or your leg, crowhop, buck rear, or suddenly sidepass without warning at any time for any reason.
    If they can do all this with almost any rider and don't spook at just about anything I consider them dead broke.
    If they can collect themselves, rate their speed, have the correct headset for their discipline, sidepass and pivot, turn on haunches, cross obstacles and water, drag something...usually a tire or haybale,tie quietly ect...then I consider them a finished horse.
    Sounds right to me! You just worded it a lot better than I did, tightpaycheck .
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    This is a dead broke horse. One that kids can handle and then adults can go compete on. Yes this is the same horse. I don't think that JUST hours of riding makes a dead broke horse. Temperment and the kind of training also help. Hobo has ALWAYS been a calm horse. He was calm enough to ride through a parade just 14 days after we started training him ( right in front of two fire engies and a police car with lights and sirens going) I'm not saying he was Dead broke then, BUT he was pretty well dead broke before 1000 hours of riding.
    I've also has other horses with more than 1000 hours of riding that I'd NOT put a kid or other beginner on. Temperment is as much a factor in a dead broke horse as training is.






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    Misty has more than 1000 hours but I wouldn't consider her "dead broke" she doesn't even know what leads are But that is only because she wasn't taught them.

    some horses take basic training for a month or so and then are only trail ridden. it still doesn't mean that they know how to say sidepass or do a collected canter or .....

    Then there are some horses who progress alot faster. they would need less work.
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    The article listed several factors and not just time alone in the saddle. He also mentioned the intelligence of the horse as well. How many variety of experiences it had....etc. The intelligence factor weighs in heavily w/me. I wouldn't want on an aggressive animal nor would I consider it ever dead broke.

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