[PoochtheMighty]

(hopefully this isn't a repeat, and if it is, let's do it again anyway for the newcomers)

Okay, I posted this to avoid making a trainwreck out of the headset one *I tend to do that with debates* and I would like to hear thoughts from all points of the spectrum. Everyone loves a good healthy debate.

Dressage to Western Pleasure.

What do you think of collection? How do you define it? How do you acheive it?

Let's be nice, please.

[Cara]

I found this article about true collection - which i really like

http://www.sustainabledressage.net/c...collection.php

[JBandRio]

I think that's an excellent article on collection.

I define it in simple terms, without getting into the mechanics of what's going on, or the degrees of collection necessary for which movements, by the following:

The horse should be ready to go in any direction I ask at any second. If that means forward, he should spring strongly forward. If it's sideways, he's there. If it's a 90 degree turn, it's done without falling on his face. If it's backing up from a halt, it's done promptly and without dragging feet.

So, by my definition, this means that a WP horse is not collected.

[Cavalier]

Many ppl refer to collection as 'being on the bit' but it isn't.

Before the horse can even attempt 'true' collection he must be:
*Forward, balanced, regular, obedient and responsive to all aids, he must have good working paces.

When a horse is collected and say working at a collected trot, he lifts his forehand and places his weight in his hindquarters...this gives him the desired impulsion and it is then that the power truly comes from behind...the horses gaits are shorted, but much more elevated and active...where as a working trot should be forward, the horse should not be on the forehand, but at that level he is not yet ready to work 'collected'.

The rider must use alot of seat, leg and half halts to control and utilise the horses power so that it comes right from behind, to keep that forehand raised and to maintain that highly elevated rythem.

[juxtposdbologna]

^^^ Yup. The hind end coming underneath the body, engaging the hindquarters.

[luvs2ride79]

Collection "should" be the same basic idea for all styles of riding, from Dressage to WP. The horse should be moving freely, balanced, and rounded (degree varying for the disciplne/level and/or movement/gait) from poll to croup. The horse should be effectively using its hind end and driving from beind. The back should up and supple. The neck should be relaxed with little to no tension. The front end should be slightly elevated to allow for greater freedom of movement. And the horse should be happy!! A horse that is not happy is one that is not properly collected... Or the poor thing is just burnt out. Either way, it's not correct and the rider should try to figure out what they are doing wrong.

~Barbara

[oldhag]

Obviously collection means 'different things to all men!'

This could get as bad as a religious discussion.

Top-level dressage, show-jumping, Western, circus, they all have it. In their own way. Yet, the basic ideal remains the same.

The horse is balanced and on the rider's aids sufficiently to perform what is asked easily. Therefore, at the lower levels, only a small amount of collection is required... more and more as the training and level progress.

Some horses find it easy, they have the right conformation, movement and temperament.

Some horses will never reach it.

No one can force a horse to be collected. It does almost 'seem' to happen on it's own - with the right training!

Horses for courses...Each to his own...

If you are winning at your desired type of competition, you've got it.

If you aren't. Keep trying, you'll get there.

[Xena_n_joss]

Collection to me, is your horse working properly and responsively off your aids. Your horse fully using its whole body, back and haunches.

The horse should look loose and relaxed. It houls look as if you are not touching its mouth or holding it in. It should be light and balanced to create a finished easy looking, nice picture.

Proper working collection is the peak of how you should want your horse moving, and it is the peak of when your horse is truely muscled properly and has strength in its lumbar and hocks.

[horsegent]

Collection is a controlled bouncy condition of the horse in which he gathers his hindlegs forward under his body to take a larger proportion of his weight on the hindlegs with slightly lowered haunches. In forward movement, the strides are markedly shorter than at the corresponding working gait.

The horse indicates a high degree of impulsion by the arching of the neck and in the springiness of all his movements. He does not fight the bit or lean on it but maintains a light steady pressure and is alert to respond to the slightest indication by the rider.

Since the same degree of impulsion can also be obtained at halt, it is appropriate to speak of a collected halt as well.

Extreme collection leads to the levade, in which the whole of the weight is taken on the hidlegs with lowered haunches whilst the forelegs are lifted from the ground and tucked up under the chest.

Anything other than that isn't collection - plain and simple

[PoochtheMighty]

(Forgive me if this post is a little out there, I am in a rush and spent most of my time on a fruitless search for the USDF definition of collection).

I was always under the impression that it was one thing only, as well, plain and simple, cut and dry- the horse transfers his weight to his haunches and uses them as more of a supportive force rather than driving, resulting in a springier step and shorter, faster stride. Therefore the horse shortens his frame through rounding his back and neck, and elevating his front end.

But lately, I have seen a lot of people tell me that it's that the horse is well balance, or tracking up, or responsive to the aids, etc. A western pleasure rider will tell me that her horse is collected, but how?
How, physically, is the horse is collected with a more long and low frame, and slower steps? Is that possible?

Or is collection only developed with a more compact, upright outline with an elevated shoulder and neck?