[Super Step]

Originally Posted by Stormyheart6160

Hmmmm......where's all the pro slaughter people? I would of thought they'd already be here in this thread trying to refute the evidence?

When is the Anti Slaughter side going to come up with a working plan to house all the unwanted horses in the U.S.?
We have these discussion and have never been given answers. When the Pro Slaughter side ignores another debate they are challenged to enter.

1) Save the horse. Bid $1 more that the buyer suspected of shipping to slaughter.

2) Organize all the Anti Slaughter citizens and have then pay rescues to provide homes and medical treatment for the unwanted horses.

3) Accept responsibility for what was created by the Anti Slaughter groups.
Do not try to turn it around on the Pro side. The pro side has a solution. Slaughter.

4) Look at the increasing number of neglected horses in the U.S. and realize that slaughter did not create the present situation and circumstances. Slaughter is not to blame for people abandoning and neglecting horses. The individual horse owner is.

I have no right to tell someone they need to eat horses the same as I have no right to tell them they can not.
My responsibility is to MY animals, to provide them with proper care while they are in my ownership.

I always ask the same question and never receive an answer.
What is anti slaughter doing as an organized group to care for the individual horses?
Nothing.
Yes, some take on a few. That is nice and I respect those who feel it is their calling to save those few.
What about the thousands?
If the Anti side is so strong, so politically motivated, what have they not gained the politics and the funding to keep these horses in pens for years like is being done for the feral horse?

I would have stayed out of this as do most Pro Slaughter members.
All that is ever said is that the Pro side is greedy. I have never understood how me only feeling responsible for what is in my pasture as being greedy. Guess it works when they have no real working solution.
I have never seen a kill buyer who looked prosperous. He/she makes a meager living buying the horses others (horse people, rescues, Anti and Pro do not bid on).

We will have neglected horses. We will have horses starve on back 40's that no one will ever see. We will have horses abandoned. No amount of additional Anti slaughter laws or policy is going to change that.

[PyroTekNik333]

Originally Posted by Feliche

I believe you misinterpreted my OWN sarcasm. The animals I am referring to are NOT sickly horses, these are healthy horses that are being RELEASED into the "wild" by their owners that can't feed them or even GIVE them away in this economy.

Oops, nope, I got your sarcasm, the rest of that was for the people who think only sick or abused horses end up in slaughter, sorry for not making that very clear

[Haas Horse Farm]

I too find it frustrating that the anti side never has an answer for the big problem. Stopping slaughter will not stop abuse. I am still wanting for someone to tell me how that would happen because each and every day it is proven to not be true.

How many horses are starving to death in the US now? Apparently the anti slaughter actions are not helping or legislation of this sort would not be considered...

Panel Considers Horse Meat Processing Plant for Tennessee

With cooperation from the state Department of Agriculture, some state legislators are tentatively seeking ways to process horse meat in Tennessee, either for consumption by humans in other nations or animals in zoos.
Up for discussion in the House Agriculture Committee Tuesday was a proposal (HB1428) that sponsor Rep. Frank Niceley, R-Strawberry Plains, said could be the first step toward sales of Tennessee horse meat for shipment overseas.
The bill, as revised by an amendment adopted by the committee on Tuesday, calls for the Department of Agriculture to promulgate rules and regulations for licensing and inspection of "equine slaughter and processing facilities" in Tennessee.
The measure also declares that anyone who files a lawsuit against establishing a horse processing plant in the state must post a bond with the court equal to 20 percent of the cost of building the plant. If the bond is not filed, the bill calls for automatic dismissal of the lawsuit.
Niceley said the provision is modeled after a Montana law and intended to show that the state is "a friendly environment for horse processing" by easing fears that "some fringe radical animal rights group" will try to stop building a facility.
The hope, he said, is that such legislation will help lure a foreign-owned company into building a Tennessee horse processing facility and export the meat to countries where horse meat is regularly consumed. Federal law prohibits processing horse meat for sale in the United States.
"This is a first step toward dealing with the problem of the unwanted horse," he said.
Rep. John Litz, D-Morristown, raised the possibility of having a facility in Tennessee that would process horse meat for sale to zoos. He said that zoos in Tennessee are currently importing horse meat from Canada for consumption by carnivores such as lions, tigers and wolves.
Jimmy Hopper, director of regulatory services for the Department of Agriculture, told the committee that federal law would prohibit processing of horses in a plant that also processes cattle or hogs for human consumption.
But he said that, if the facility was solely dedicated to horse processing, it might be legal - at least if the meat were distributed only to zoos within the state. In response to requests from committee members, Hopper said he would research the matter further and report back to the panel.
The committee postponed further consideration of the bill until next week.
Litz, Niceley and others say Tennessee and the nation as a whole are now overrun with aged or abandoned horses with little or no value in the current economy.
"If they could be sold for zoo meat for $50, that would be better than having them starve to death," said Litz after the meeting.
Posted by Tom Humphrey on April 28, 2009 at 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Super Step

When is the Anti Slaughter side going to come up with a working plan to house all the unwanted horses in the U.S.?
We have these discussion and have never been given answers. When the Pro Slaughter side ignores another debate they are challenged to enter.

1) Save the horse. Bid $1 more that the buyer suspected of shipping to slaughter.

2) Organize all the Anti Slaughter citizens and have then pay rescues to provide homes and medical treatment for the unwanted horses.

3) Accept responsibility for what was created by the Anti Slaughter groups.
Do not try to turn it around on the Pro side. The pro side has a solution. Slaughter.

4) Look at the increasing number of neglected horses in the U.S. and realize that slaughter did not create the present situation and circumstances. Slaughter is not to blame for people abandoning and neglecting horses. The individual horse owner is.

I have no right to tell someone they need to eat horses the same as I have no right to tell them they can not.
My responsibility is to MY animals, to provide them with proper care while they are in my ownership.

I always ask the same question and never receive an answer.
What is anti slaughter doing as an organized group to care for the individual horses?
Nothing.
Yes, some take on a few. That is nice and I respect those who feel it is their calling to save those few.
What about the thousands?
If the Anti side is so strong, so politically motivated, what have they not gained the politics and the funding to keep these horses in pens for years like is being done for the feral horse?

I would have stayed out of this as do most Pro Slaughter members.
All that is ever said is that the Pro side is greedy. I have never understood how me only feeling responsible for what is in my pasture as being greedy. Guess it works when they have no real working solution.
I have never seen a kill buyer who looked prosperous. He/she makes a meager living buying the horses others (horse people, rescues, Anti and Pro do not bid on).

We will have neglected horses. We will have horses starve on back 40's that no one will ever see. We will have horses abandoned. No amount of additional Anti slaughter laws or policy is going to change that.

[Stormyheart6160]

Originally Posted by Super Step

When is the Anti Slaughter side going to come up with a working plan to house all the unwanted horses in the U.S.? It's not our responsibility to house all the unwanted horses. Those horses DO have owners......it's THEIR responsibility to house them. It's THEIR responsibility to care for them. It's THEIR responsibility to end their life and dispose of them.........THAT'S where this whole problem starts.....the owners! IF, and WHEN the human species takes responsibility for their actions, and IF and When, they also have to suffer the consequences.....IF there are still enough horses around to slaughter, then I MIGHT change my stand on this issue. But, as it stands right now....I REFUSE to just sit back and accept all the neglect/abuse/abandonment being done at the hands of HUMANS, and THEY suffer NO CONSEQUENCES, while the animal suffers for both of them. They would also have to make the transportation and method of killing a LOT more humane, before I would accept it. As I've stated before, if someone wants to butcher their own horse and BBQ it.....go for it. People can eat all the horsemeat they want. But, I'll be danged (would prefer another word there, but it would get starred out), if I'll sit back and just say "It's a need evil and we just have to accept that the human species is superior and it's OK to be inhumane, because we're gonna kill them anyway to eat."
We have these discussion and have never been given answers. When the Pro Slaughter side ignores another debate they are challenged to enter.

1) Save the horse. Bid $1 more that the buyer suspected of shipping to slaughter. I've PAID for more horses destined for slaughter, than you can realise, and it was a LOT more than just $1 over the asking price. My old mare Peaches, she was 20 when I got her. The man was selling her to the meatman, but wanted $300 from anyone else. She was a real gem, a "babysitter". I ended up paying that man $900 for her, because he refused to sell "such an old horse" to me. I kept upping the amount I would pay for her, until he finally caved in. After he finally agreed to sell her to me, he told me he didn't want the $900 and would take the original $300. I handed him his $900 and walked away with my now 30 year old, retired mare.

Does everybody do this? Of course not. But, there's just as many people on BOTH sides of this issue that would.

2) Organize all the Anti Slaughter citizens and have then pay rescues to provide homes and medical treatment for the unwanted horses. We'll do that....we'll put that on our priority list. AS SOON AS they make breeding them more costly and more difficult.

3) Accept responsibility for what was created by the Anti Slaughter groups. The anti slaughter side isn't responsible for all the foals hitting the ground each year. Sure there's anti's breeding. But, talk to all the people breeding....the majority are PRO slaughter, so if there foals don't sell....they can send them to a feedlot and make room for next years foals.
Do not try to turn it around on the Pro side. The pro side has a solution. Slaughter. Then, don't try to turn the problem around on the anti's either. The problem ISN'T slaughter, in and of itself (tho it needs a serious overhauling). Again, the problem starts with people. Go to the root of the problem, find your solution, and the "end" (slaughter) of the problem, wont' be a problem anymore.

4) Look at the increasing number of neglected horses in the U.S. and realize that slaughter did not create the present situation and circumstances. Slaughter is not to blame for people abandoning and neglecting horses. The individual horse owner is. I absolutely agree with you here! Just convince everyone else of it.

I have no right to tell someone they need to eat horses the same as I have no right to tell them they can not. Nobody is telling anyone else they can't eat horsemeat. I suppose there are some anti's who are so staunch that they don't want any horse consumed by anyone. To me, that's THEIR problem. I just don't see the need for slaughter to be the cure all for the breeding problem.
My responsibility is to MY animals, to provide them with proper care while they are in my ownership. Absolutely! As is mine. But, if your neighbor was severely neglecting his horses, and they were dropping like flies there, would you turn the other cheek because it's not your responsibility, or would you call the authorities, and make it your responsibility?

I always ask the same question and never receive an answer.
What is anti slaughter doing as an organized group to care for the individual horses? Again, there have been horses abandoned for years upon years. Even before this issue became an issue. Nobody was saying it's the anti's responsibility then. Why now? Because horses have become profitable, (well they were, until the economy took a nose dive), and now everyone wants their share of the pie....so to speak. MONEY, and covering up/disposing of the neglected/abused, and NOT having to pay the price for it....instead they get paid.
Nothing.
Yes, some take on a few. That is nice and I respect those who feel it is their calling to save those few.
What about the thousands? Who produced those thousands each year? There are weanling foals being dumped. There are weanling foals being starved. WHY? Why produce them if their future is that? Go after these idiots doing this, and again, slaughter more enlikely won't be as big of an issue as it is. At least not for me it wouldn't be.
If the Anti side is so strong, so politically motivated, what have they not gained the politics and the funding to keep these horses in pens for years like is being done for the feral horse? We make the same money you do. We can't afford to take on EVERYONE elses horses into our care. Sometimes, the owners have to step up to the plate and take responsibility, and suffer the consequences too.

I would have stayed out of this as do most Pro Slaughter members.
All that is ever said is that the Pro side is greedy. I have never understood how me only feeling responsible for what is in my pasture as being greedy. Guess it works when they have no real working solution.
I have never seen a kill buyer who looked prosperous. He/she makes a meager living buying the horses others (horse people, rescues, Anti and Pro do not bid on). Hmmm.....guess I need to introduce you to a few kill buyers that I know. They live/eat/dress/drive a whole lot better than I do.

We will have neglected horses. We will have horses starve on back 40's that no one will ever see. We will have horses abandoned. No amount of additional Anti slaughter laws or policy is going to change that.

True! No amount of pro slaughter policies is gonna change that either.

[Haas Horse Farm]

I guess my problem is why are we letting emotions get in the way of saving lives? How many people would not be starving in the US and how many horses would not be starving in the US if our government had not gone on some rampage to make them pets?

How much of the national budget would be saved if all the horses that have been in holding pens for YEARS and our tax dollars are being spent to feed were instead used to slaughter these horses to feed those who are incarcerated in the US and those who eat in Soup Kitchens?

We could feed Zoo Animals and humans in need and save many many many dollars. Anyone know where to look to see how much the cost of operation has risen in many zoo's since they no longer feed horse meat?

How is not eating horse meat going to stop abuse? IT is NOT. The two are not related. Much like the BEEF we eat... those cattle are not abused. Look at the cows that DB's kids took to show... those were very well fed and are now in the freezer. Their life served a purpose in the circle of life. Why people want to tie slaughter and abuse together is beyond me. They are not related. Healthy meat is whats for dinner!

[Beeks]

Use slaughtered horses to feed the diminishing POLAR BEAR??



Ah Saddletrail, that made me laugh out loud. Somehow we have managed to drag another highly volatile subject into the slaughter debate....Global Warming.

I also wondered how long the foreigners would pee green before they questioned their horse eating selves.

I have nothing new to add to the debate because I have run out of pizza pockets and must now go in search of some other snack food to consume while watching the continuing saga.

[Super Step]

Do not try to turn it around on the Pro side. The pro side has a solution. Slaughter. Then, don't try to turn the problem around on the anti's either. The problem ISN'T slaughter

The ending of slaughter was caused by the Anti Slaughter side. Since then the number of neglected horses has increased to the point where rescues are full. Still the number increases yearly because the unwanted horses from last year still remain.
Had the Anti side not been successful in closing the slaughter plants we would have less horses.
We had a process that had evolved to take the unwanted horses in the U.S. The pro side did not create slaughter but were open minded enough to realize the need.
Yes, by all means I blame the Anti side. How can the Pro side possibly be remotely responsible? They understood. It was the Anti side who went in guns a blazing and shot down the only option that had ever worked.

Ending slaughter in the U.S. happened because of the mindset of one specific group, the Anti Slaughter.
They created the mess we have now. They are responsible for the stockpiling of unwanted horses in the U.S. They are responsible for removing the only option that was created by supply and demand.

Control breeding?
That will not stop horses from growing old.
It will not stop horses from being injured.
It will not stop people from losing their jobs and giving up on their dream of owning a horse.

I went back and looked at some of the original gloating the Anti side did on this forum when Slaughter plants were first closed.
The pitiful state of the horse was predicted then. Those predictions were scoffed at, the government would have to step in, changes were on the way. The anti side had won and were running things now.

The report card is not looking to good.

[KristinJ]

Stormy - I think you are forgetting one thing .. PEOPLE ARE STUPID! It's like those crazy cat people who own 345836 cats in their homes (feral ones), and the animal shelters take them all and put them down. They cannot rehome most of the cats and most are sick. The owners got in over their head and DON'T deal with it. Now just imagine it with horses, because that is what is happening!! It's a lot more expensive to dispose of a horse than a cat!! For aslong as people are on this planet there will be people who will NEVER accept responsibily for their actions and will NOT realize what is going on and simply do NOT CARE!

There are far too many neglected horses out there for animal control to even LOOK AT let alone take IN and provide food and shelter. So again, what should be done with these horses?? My neighbor down the road has 20 horses. More than half have no shelter and more than half are SKINNY.They are left to pasture and some hay and that is that. if I called ainmal control they would laugh at me, and never come out. The horse has to be down and covered in blood to maybe have someone come and look at it. I know people should be decent enough to take care of their animals but they aare NOT ...

[KristinJ]

The problem is too many neglected horses ... over abundance of horses. The solution IS slaughter ... unfortunately you have a lot of issues with how to get those horses TO slaughter and in the most humane way.

It's like deer. The population is crazy. So what do we do? We shoot them. We have regulations, hunters can hunt through this time span and that is that.

[LindaMM]

Originally Posted by KristinJ

The problem is too many neglected horses ... over abundance of horses. The solution IS slaughter ... unfortunately you have a lot of issues with how to get those horses TO slaughter and in the most humane way.

It's like deer. The population is crazy. So what do we do? We shoot them. We have regulations, hunters can hunt through this time span and that is that.

hey... maybe that's the answer.... issue hunting licenses for horses...

then the BLM can put all the horses currently in holding pens into a hunting reserve... and the money from the hunting licenses could fund the transportation and "re-homing" of unwanted domestic horses to the same hunting reserve.