[Huntseat]

My pony won't lunge..This probably sounds ridiculous, and it isn't really THAT big of a problem because I do most of my conditioning from the saddle and I have no need to use lunging as an aid for ground work or "tiring her out", but it's something that I would like to figure out someday for my own sanity

She KNOWS what I want.. Her ground manners are impeccable. She's respectful but not fearful of the whip or any of my body parts. Except when we're lunging. She's just SO darn lazy that I can barely get her into a fast trot, much less a canter. I'm pretty confident in my lunging skills. I mean, I know the theory behind it and I have NO problem lunging any other horse except for Melody. I've trained several horses to lunge. I've lunged horses at a pretty big show barn under a big-name trainer's instruction. I honestly don't think that this one is MY problem, I really think it boils down to the fact that she's lazy. Is there anything that I can DO about that?

[JBandRio]

Well sure, there's a lot you can do about it Look up hil529's thread from a few weeks or so ago on how to get her horse to lunge. It all boils down to the same things, so you might find your answer there.

Laziness on the lunge translates to laziness under saddle. If the only issue is that she just won't go, then you have not found an effective motivation to GET her going This means - use the lunge whip and MEAN IT. It does not mean beat her. It means ask her from out by your side, then a little closer to her hind end, a little closer still, and if by that time she still thinks you're bluffing, your lunge whip must reach her hind end and hard. It's no different from her ignoring a more alpha horse to move away from the pile of hay - warnings are given, and if/when she still ignores it, or simply chooses to move away too slowly for the alpha's liking, she gets bitten on the butt.

[buck1173]

Originally Posted by huntseat

I honestly don't think that this one is MY problem, I really think it boils down to the fact that she's lazy.

its always our problem. sad but true. thats what makes them so fun

[JBandRio]

Originally Posted by buck1173

its always our problem. sad but true.

Yep! Or, probably more accurately, 99.999% of the time it's our problem I'll leave room for the very rare horse who really just isn't wired right.

thats what makes them so fun

So true, if you look at it for what it is - a game. It's ALWAYS a game - who can "make" the other party do the desired thing.

[Huntseat]

Originally Posted by JBandRio

Well sure, there's a lot you can do about it Look up hil529's thread from a few weeks or so ago on how to get her horse to lunge. It all boils down to the same things, so you might find your answer there.

I'll go look at that when I'm done with the rest of my reply. Thanks for mentioning her thread

Laziness on the lunge translates to laziness under saddle. If the only issue is that she just won't go, then you have not found an effective motivation to GET her going This means - use the lunge whip and MEAN IT. It does not mean beat her. It means ask her from out by your side, then a little closer to her hind end, a little closer still, and if by that time she still thinks you're bluffing, your lunge whip must reach her hind end and hard. It's no different from her ignoring a more alpha horse to move away from the pile of hay - warnings are given, and if/when she still ignores it, or simply chooses to move away too slowly for the alpha's liking, she gets bitten on the butt.

Really, she is anything BUT lazy under saddle. She certainly isn't "hot" under saddle, but she's very hot off my leg, seat, and voice both for cues for forward motion and for lateral movements and steering.

And as far as the lunge whip, she just does not CARE. I can literally POP her hard enough that it should sting a bit and "mean" it, and she'll continue her lazy little trot and look at me like, "You really think that that little stick is going to get me moving any faster than this?"

In any other respect, her ground manners are to die for. She moves away from a gentle poke or a push without hesitation, she leads right at your shoulder with or without a halter on her and she'll do about anything else that you ask of her.. except lunge.

Thank you for the reply I'll go check out that thread now.

[JBandRio]

Originally Posted by huntseat

And as far as the lunge whip, she just does not CARE. I can literally POP her hard enough that it should sting a bit and "mean" it, and she'll continue her lazy little trot and look at me like, "You really think that that little stick is going to get me moving any faster than this?"

Realize that your "POP" is pretty subjective. A POP for my TB mare would have my WB gelding, in the old days, giving me the look your mare is giving you - "whuhhh, was that a fly?"

[Huntseat]

This is probably going to make it sound like I abuse my horse, but I have "popped" her hard enough that ANY horse should have felt it and RESPONDED to it. Sure, she jumped forward a bit in surprise the first, and then went back to her slow trot. I would pop again and get no response.

When she didn't respond to me cracking the whip, I would tap her. No response. Gentle pop with the whip. No response. Harder pop. No more response than I got from just waving the whip around behind her. Eventually we got to the point where the whip would leave a line across her fur where it hit her. STILL, no response. She's a very sensitive horse. She isn't the least bit dead-sided or hard-mouthed. I can move her hind end away from me by pressing lightly on her hip.

The ONLY way I have managed to get her into a canter, both while free lunging and lunging on the line, is by running after her waving my arms.

[Rhythm 'n Blues]

I think in the situation described I'd be working loose in the round pen!

The horse is calling your bluff, plain and simple, and since she has proved you're bluffing more often then not, she now thinks that you never mean it, and never will. (like the mom that threatens no desert to their kid, but never follows through....the kid KNOWS the mom won't follow through, so there's not reason the kid should do what is being asked)

If weaiving your hands at her is what gets her moving, then round pen using that method. I know with my old QH, B, if my whip or body language was being ignored all it took for him was a very stern sounding "B" to come from my mouth, he KNEW that meant business. Even if it was him not listening to me asking for a downwards transition on the lunge, a "B" in a stern voice made him come immediately back to what I had asked for before being stern. He wasn't a dumb horse at all.....rather the reverse, too smart for his own good! hehehehe

There has to be SOMETHING that your mare knows means business, so use that to your advantage and start while round-penning, as it doesn't allow your horse ANY reason for not going forward (providing you're not blocking them of course)

[Huntseat]

[quote=Rhythm 'n Blues;2604117]I think in the situation described I'd be working loose in the round pen!

The horse is calling your bluff, plain and simple, and since she has proved you're bluffing more often then not, she now thinks that you never mean it, and never will. (like the mom that threatens no desert to their kid, but never follows through....the kid KNOWS the mom won't follow through, so there's not reason the kid should do what is being asked)[quote]

How am I bluffing? I followed through with HARSH commands and MAKING her move. Even after YEARS of trying to get her to consistently canter on the lunge, she will ONLY do it when I run after her chasing, and even then, only for maybe two to three strides, adn then we're back to the lazy trot.

Unfortunately, I don't have a round pen to work in, so I'm "stuck" in the indoor arena.

If weaiving your hands at her is what gets her moving, then round pen using that method. I know with my old QH, B, if my whip or body language was being ignored all it took for him was a very stern sounding "B" to come from my mouth, he KNEW that meant business. Even if it was him not listening to me asking for a downwards transition on the lunge, a "B" in a stern voice made him come immediately back to what I had asked for before being stern. He wasn't a dumb horse at all.....rather the reverse, too smart for his own good! hehehehe

Like I mentioned, that only works for a couple strides. I physically can't keep up with her after that (ten minutes of running just about does me in) and even if I could, it wouldn't do a bit of good.

There has to be SOMETHING that your mare knows means business, so use that to your advantage and start while round-penning, as it doesn't allow your horse ANY reason for not going forward (providing you're not blocking them of course)

Honestly, other than the lunge whip, I can't really think of something like that. It has been so long since I have had to reprimand her for anything that we don't really have that "something".

With all of that said, thank you VERY much for the reply. I feel like I'm just coming up with excuses for all of this, but part of why I'm so stumped is that I have gone through everything that you and JB are suggesting already. I'm typically a pretty good problem solver when it comes to horses, and I know this mare inside and out. I have gone through every possible solution that I could think of, including what you and JB have posted (minus the roundpen), with no avail.

[hil529]

i feel your pain ...
as JBandRio said, look up my threads about my pony flash. you will find some helpful info there. i had more of a "circle and go" problem than laziness. my pony wouldnt go at all (i would have been happy with a slow walk!) but thanks to some great HGSers he now does w/t pretty solidly on the lunge both directions.

good luck with it! if you have any questions, id be happy to share my experience to try to help