[pippy]

I may be way off base here - and just thinking of things to hard....

But - riding today got me thinking.

Does having a ground line become important when your horse/you start moving up heights?

E.g. Turbo and I compete regularily at 1.10 - and the rings just about never have ground lines - no worries.

Yet today, and on another few odd ocasions - when we school up higher 1.15 - 1.20m we generally do fine with ground lines, but those that don't have them we are mre likely to take a rail (this is just schooling though).

So does this mean that turbo possibly needs a ground line until we are comfortable at that height and he judges distance/height better?

I doubt this was a issue as we moved up lower heights to where we are at all - or I'm a more aware rider now and never noticed before

[farmeress]

Seeee..to me pippy...it is not just the horse that becomes dependant on the ground line...but the rider too....most will look to the ground for their distance...even subconcously...and it becomes ingrained/habit...without the groundline...the eye goes quickly from the ground to the middle of the top of the fence...but not before a quater/half stride is added which takes the rails.

I had a cruel coach who took my ground rails away...lifted my eye for a distance...and taught me the value of looking for the back rail line as well.

In the beginning...greenies...both horse and rider benefit...butl...ike a pacifier...they should be weaned off of them and learn to ride off their eye to the rythym/tempo/pace...again...both horse and rider.

[pippy]

Originally Posted by farmeress

Seeee..to me pippy...it is not just the horse that becomes dependant on the ground line...but the rider too....most will look to the ground for their distance...even subconcously...and it becomes ingrained/habit...without the groundline...the eye goes quickly from the ground to the middle of the top of the fence...but not before a quater/half stride is added which takes the rails.

I had a cruel coach who took my ground rails away...lifted my eye for a distance...and taught me the value of looking for the back rail line as well.

In the beginning...greenies...both horse and rider benefit...butlike a pacifier...they should be weaned off of them and learn to ride off their eye to the rythym/tempo/pace...again...both horse and rider.

is it interesting then - that of all the jumps jumped - we were fine at oxers with or without groundlines - but the uprights - it was where I had issues?

and also - I wasn't riding to place the horse - today was a "quality of canter" day - as it has been slipping/I've been lazy - so I didn't really give a hoot where he took off from if it was long or deep. The rails took - were neither too long or too deep spots - not quite 100% but not that bad either.

I'm probably thinking to hard about it all - frig its the first time we've done more than a jump or two of that height in a row - we were doing full courses on tricky lines/ hard turns so i should be pleased lol.

And now I'm thinking about it - maybe I was looking at the base as you say.... I'll see what happens tomorrow if i look up lol

[farmeress]

Originally Posted by pippy

is it interesting then - that of all the jumps jumped - we were fine at oxers with or without groundlines - but the uprights - it was where I had issues?

Oxers are easier to ride/guage than verticals without groundlines...it all comes down to "optical" illusion Pretend your verticals are oxers and look for a back rail line.

and also - I wasn't riding to place the horse - today was a "quality of canter" day - as it has been slipping/I've been lazy - so I didn't really give a hoot where he took off from if it was long or deep. The rails took - were neither too long or too deep spots - not quite 100% but not that bad either.

Thaaaaannnnn...to me...the groundlines were probably not the factor in the rails.

I'm probably thinking to hard about it all - frig its the first time we've done more than a jump or two of that height in a row - we were doing full courses on tricky lines/ hard turns so i should be pleased lol.

mmmmm...maybe...this could have something to do with it

And now I'm thinking about it - maybe I was looking at the base as you say.... I'll see what happens tomorrow if i look up lol

You know...you would be amazed how many people look to the base coming out of a corner or 4-6 strides away not realizing the effect it has on the ride....until some cruel...knowledgable coach come along and shows you

[pippy]

Originally Posted by farmeress

You know...you would be amazed how many people look to the base coming out of a corner or 4-6 strides away not realizing the effect it has on the ride....until some cruel...knowledgable coach come along and shows you

Thank you cruel knowledgeable coach - I will be forever indebited for you imparting your knowledge.....

Seriously - Thanks! You deserve a different status under your user name

I may go ride the same course tomorrow and think about the basae/back/top rail thing and see if it changes things at all - it would be good to do 2 days jumping and see if I can solidify what I did today

[JBandRio]

It may be more beneficial to school the new, higher fences as the last jump of a simple grid. That lays out the striding for the horse, so that part for the horse *and* rider is taken out of the equation, leaving just 1 new element - height.

PS - I'll start referring to farmeress as CKC if that helps

[pippy]

Originally Posted by JBandRio

It may be more beneficial to school the new, higher fences as the last jump of a simple grid. That lays out the striding for the horse, so that part for the horse *and* rider is taken out of the equation, leaving just 1 new element - height.

PS - I'll start referring to farmeress as CKC if that helps

We've done this - and because he is so well schooled and athletic - grid work while still has some benefits isn't getting the results/learning that *I* need, I did them long enough to not be affraid of the extra height/width and be jumping it comfortably, then moved on to the odd fence in schooling at height - which was fine as well - in fact proved uneventful.

So we've moved to jumping courses, even if its just 3-5 fences in a row of height, and now we see the issues rise LMAO.

I haven't yet jumped today - but what I'm finding is that at the 1 - 1.10m mark - I can still "stuff up" and turbo still jumps successfully in a twisted akward manner but can still clear them.... now - if its wrong it is wrong and neither one of us can get us out of it - so its really making me think about getting the approach/corners/striding/ implusion/ riding the stride I have, not what it should be to the jump etc etc

Highly entertaining videos with all the cussing when i know its wrong lol there has been a fair few quick pulls off the jump and re-approaching it because it is so horribly wrong - guess you could say I've been a lazy rider who knows that her horse looks after her when its wrong up to now.

[rosewood]

You know this summer I attended a clinic and he taught me something, I know WOW i learned something, but he taught me about getting and keeping the canter we want. We started with one fence...then three...and built on from there. It was much easier to start over if we got long and her take offs were long or if I stuffed her to the base and she had to use every ounce to get over. But once we got that nice canter I was looking for I could readjust her in a pinch and get beautiful take offs and inbetween stridings to make combinations and crooked lines. My clinician was a huge advocate of getting the canter you want and then jump little by little. He was also working with a Prelim rider and as it turned out...she got a fuzz timid and went completely conservative on vertical approaches and stuffed her horse to the base. Oxers she was beautiful. Me I look at the center of the rail (heighest if it's an oxer) and focus on getting my horse right where I need her. Sometimes I say screw it to the canter quality to get her there then gather ourselves up again in corners or in stretches where we have time.

But I don't use ground lines...I'm lazy and don't like to haul them out. I only use them on green horses trying to find their spots or if Rosewood can't get the striding down. So i'm no help. LOL

[pippy]

We went back again - and low and behold the CKC was right!

Look to the top rail - and we got it right every time. Right enought that I hiked the jumps up further 1.2-1.3 I can't believe that we were jumping that height - but we were and we were successfull - now I know that I can do it comfortable when I look to the right place - we won't go up there again - just concentrate on the comps coming up, not really necessary to do that - but gah - it was FUN.

So overall - one rail for the evening ride - and thats because I KNEW I looked at the base, and we were coming in at counter canter ( I do that often to keep him thinking and improve balance) so I need to be even more onto it than a true canter.

Will get vids one day....