[Lightningsrider]

That is seriously wrong! I can't believe they're allowing that horse to compete at the breed level....shouldn't there be some rules against that?

I hate the cloning thing...and it just keeps getting closer to cloning humans....

If anyone is interested in some "literature" on cloning, check out the novel, House of the Scorpion by Nancy Farmer.

[Bodi]

Either way, no matter what. I do not support cloning of equine's unless it is for the purpose of saving a breed from extinction. Everything is else is all about money and personal greed (which does not only cover money). Strip away all the fond memories, stories, and fluffed up reasons that people clone and that is what you get. Sad to say, but true.

[Equine Repro]

Originally Posted by cowgirl1013_7

When they take the DNA from an animal who is say 15 years old and they want to clone it the DNA is already 15yo. DNA only last so long so that ends up shortening the life of the clone. ( that is what I have been told so correct me if I am wrong). I wonder how long this one is going to last.

Aging has to do with telomeres. Below is an excellent explanation of telomeres. But, with all of that said, what has been observed with cloned animals is that the telomeres "regenerate" for lack of a better word and it is most emphatically an oversimplification. In other words, the telomeres in cloned animals are as long as if they were the "original" animal at birth.

Hope tha thelps.

Kathy St.Martin
Equine Reproduction Short Courses
http://www.equine-reproduction.com

Each eukaryotic chromosome consists of a single molecule of DNA associated with a variety of proteins.
The DNA molecules in eukaryotic chromosomes are linear; i.e., have two ends. (This is in contrast to such bacterial chromosomes as that in E. coli that is a closed circle, i.e. has no ends.)
The DNA molecule of a typical chromosome contains

• a linear array of genes (encoding proteins and RNAs) interspersed with
• much noncoding DNA.

Included in the noncoding DNA are

• long stretches that make up the centromere and
• long stretches at the ends of the chromosome, the telomeres.

Telomeres are crucial to the life of the cell. They keep the ends of the various chromosomes in the cell from accidentally becoming attached to each othe

[prairienights]

Originally Posted by Equine Repro

Aging has to do with telomeres. Below is an excellent explanation of telomeres. But, with all of that said, what has been observed with cloned animals is that the telomeres "regenerate" for lack of a better word and it is most emphatically an oversimplification. In other words, the telomeres in cloned animals are as long as if they were the "original" animal at birth.

Hope tha thelps.

Kathy St.Martin
Equine Reproduction Short Courses
http://www.equine-reproduction.com

Each eukaryotic chromosome consists of a single molecule of DNA associated with a variety of proteins.
The DNA molecules in eukaryotic chromosomes are linear; i.e., have two ends. (This is in contrast to such bacterial chromosomes as that in E. coli that is a closed circle, i.e. has no ends.)
The DNA molecule of a typical chromosome contains

• a linear array of genes (encoding proteins and RNAs) interspersed with
• much noncoding DNA.

Included in the noncoding DNA are

• long stretches that make up the centromere and
• long stretches at the ends of the chromosome, the telomeres.

Telomeres are crucial to the life of the cell. They keep the ends of the various chromosomes in the cell from accidentally becoming attached to each othe

I've always been interested in what happens to telomeres in clones also...thanks for answering that

I'm kind of warrily neutral about the cloning situation. I don't see how it could possibly be *that* much of a profit-making tool since it is still so expensive. Not enough people would be able to buy the clones at the price it costs to produce one for it to be worth it. That being said, I don't see it overwhelming the horse industry...at least for awhile.

I'm an animal science major, and my particular interest is reproduction so the whole science as well as ethical questions behind these topics really interest me. Like some of the examples people have already described, I think most who try to replace an animal they've lost with a clone will be disappointed. Genetics is not the entire formula of an individual, thus clones are not the "same animal."

I think if anything, at this point, I'd want breed registries to be cautious of cloning and consider making restrictions while it is so new. Wouldn't it be sad if there was a whole reining class filled with Hollywood Dun Its?

[Equine Repro]

Originally Posted by prairienights

I've always been interested in what happens to telomeres in clones also...thanks for answering that

<smile>...Your welcome. The rumor that Dolly died due to premature aging is pervasive. She actually died of a natural disease, NOT of old age - premature or otherwise. The whole premature aging issue is definitely a topic of concern with regards to cloning, but when we met with Dr. Vanderwall (one of the researchers responsible for the original mule clones) we had a discussion about the topic of premature aging. He said that obviously, it's still not entirely known whether or not clones from adult animals will age prematurely, but that the telomeres of those animals had actually regenerated to a large degree. So, only time will tell...

I'm kind of warrily neutral about the cloning situation.

Yup. Much cutting edge research was met with resistance and the "playing God" mantra. However, without it, we'd probably still be dealing with the likes of small pox and diseases with no known cure. Probably one of the biggest things that is grossly overlooked is the BENEFITS that have come from the cloning of equine. Because of what it took to "tweak" things sufficiently to finally accomplish an equine clone, it is believed it will assist in understanding why men develop prostrate cancer and yet the equine does not. It required an alteration in the calcium content of the solution before they were able successfully clone the equine! And the difference is in the calcium content of equine semen versus human semen.

I don't see how it could possibly be *that* much of a profit-making tool since it is still so expensive. Not enough people would be able to buy the clones at the price it costs to produce one for it to be worth it. That being said, I don't see it overwhelming the horse industry...at least for awhile.

At the current price to produce a clone, it will probably never become mainstream, much as the cost of doing an embryo transfer will probably never become entirely mainstream. While ET's are certainly much more realistically priced than they were 10 years ago, the resulting foal still needs to have a value of at least $10,000 for it to be economically viable.

I'm an animal science major, and my particular interest is reproduction so the whole science as well as ethical questions behind these topics really interest me. Like some of the examples people have already described, I think most who try to replace an animal they've lost with a clone will be disappointed. Genetics is not the entire formula of an individual, thus clones are not the "same animal."

I think if anything, at this point, I'd want breed registries to be cautious of cloning and consider making restrictions while it is so new. Wouldn't it be sad if there was a whole reining class filled with Hollywood Dun Its?

Actually, I think that breed registries need to be proactive rather than reactive with regards to cloning. It's here. Shoving their heads in the sand and avoiding the issue is NOT protective of their members. For example, if you breed to Smart Little Lena and one of Smart Little Lena's clones, there is absolutely NO way to differentiate between the two resulting foals. They will both DNA test as being offspring of Smart Little Lena. It is open to all kinds of fraud. By registering the offspring and requiring that they are micro chipped, as well as the donor animal, and requiring that any subsequent offspring produced must be matched by that micro chip will hopefully help to cut down on the potential for dishonest breeders running rampant. And, those clones can be placed into an auxillary book and do not need to be part of the "mainstream" registry. It will also allow the registry to track what becomes of those animals as well as any genetic issues that may arise.

Most of the equines that are being cloned are performance animals that have other venues besides the breed registries for competing. Currently, because there is no way to track those animals, there are really no restrictions for them to compete, either. Probably as it should be as there are just too many variables involved.

Hopefully, this at leasts help put a different perspective on the whole cloning issue.

Kathy St.Martin
Equine Reproduction Short Courses
http://www.equine-reproduction.com

[prairienights]

Originally Posted by Equine Repro

Actually, I think that breed registries need to be proactive rather than reactive with regards to cloning. It's here. Shoving their heads in the sand and avoiding the issue is NOT protective of their members. For example, if you breed to Smart Little Lena and one of Smart Little Lena's clones, there is absolutely NO way to differentiate between the two resulting foals. They will both DNA test as being offspring of Smart Little Lena. It is open to all kinds of fraud. By registering the offspring and requiring that they are micro chipped, as well as the donor animal, and requiring that any subsequent offspring produced must be matched by that micro chip will hopefully help to cut down on the potential for dishonest breeders running rampant. And, those clones can be placed into an auxillary book and do not need to be part of the "mainstream" registry. It will also allow the registry to track what becomes of those animals as well as any genetic issues that may arise.

I think that's what I was trying to say, really. The registries need to figure out how they're going to track the cloned genetics while cloning is still new to the horse industry and hasn't had a chance for any kind of fraud to develop. I'm ok with registering cloned animals, but I definitely think it's important to have viable and organized methods of recording which animal the genetics are coming from. And the registries need to figure that out before there are a few copies of horses everyone wants.

Thanks for the informative post

[Xiphias]

I like your idea of micro chipping the clones, and keeping track of them....thanks for clearing the whole Dolly the sheep thing...I only remember what I saw on the news about it...

Cathy

[horsesR4life]

I think cloning is great.


Just think of all the doors that are now open to our doctors and surgens?

Ok cloning legend horses is a bit unethical and they should stay in history, but if we think outside of the box.....

Clone organs, a boy who had a deformed heart can get a cloned heart from his father (i think they say its better to get organs from a family member so there is less risk of the body rejecting it)

I heard that doctors got a dead rats heart to beat again, and rebuild and become a fully functioning heart, lives will be saved with this knowledge.

Now there is fear and anger that this cloning can get out of hand i.e people living for hundreds of years, cloning whole human beings e.c.t, this is where i start to disagree.

[Blistering Winds]

For those looking to see how clone does against it's "real" counterpart...

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/...n1680235.shtml


Course, one must remember, environmental factors plays a VERY STRONG part in performance over just genetics.

[Equine Repro]

Originally Posted by Blistering Winds

For those looking to see how clone does against it's "real" counterpart...

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/...n1680235.shtml


Course, one must remember, environmental factors plays a VERY STRONG part in performance over just genetics.

<smile>...Welllll...this news story didn't tell the whole thing. What they failed to mention in the article is that Idaho Star's jockey ended up in the pokey the night before the race and Idaho Star ended up having a "catch" jokey riding him - not his usual rider. But it does tend to basically support the argument of just how much environmental factors "will" have on the final outcome of what a horse is capable of doing. Also, one must remember that the mule clones are full siblings to the successful racing mule, Taz and are NOT clones of Taz himself. Kinda like breeding Barbaro's sire and dam and hoping for another Barbaro...it may or may not happen!

Kathy St.Martin
Equine Reproduction Short Courses
http://www.equine-reproduction.com

and

Avalon Equine
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