[MyBelgianAzzy]

Can someone tell me the difference between a Segunda mouth (either solid or jointed) and a correction or cathedral or whatever the correct term is for the high-ported western bits?

ETA: This is actually post 7 as well- I wasn't clear enough.

I should have been VERY more specific.

Mouthpeices only. My trunk is full of single and double jointed mouths, mullen mouths, low ports, and a segunda.

In another members thread, someone posted what *I* would consider a VERY high port- and a western member said it was more a medium port. To me, the "medium port" looked like a segunda.

My questions are- do segunda work the same as a medium-port western bit, assuming they have IDENTICAL cheeks? Or are segundas meant to work differently?

At my barn, segundas are used on horses that "root" with their heads- we assume (and use) the mouthpeice to lift them up.

I THINK I understand that western riders use the higher ported mouths to help LOWER their horse's heads, rather than lift them.

Can someone explain how or even if they work differently?

Thank you!

[PeggySue]

this link takes you to a broken mouthed one:
Broken Segunda Dee Bit





this is a solid mouth one







For those of us who have no clue what this is here are pics and links showing

[Sue B]

Here is a really neat site that has some animated images...shows how bits work...nosebands...cheek pieces...and even how holding the reins effects bit pressure and what happens in the horse's mouth. There are exaplmes of all sorts of mouth pices including the ones you are are asking about.

Duh...it would help if I put the link in
::: Sustainable Dressage - Tack & Auxillary Equipment - The Bridle & the Bit :::

[MyBelgianAzzy]

Thanks SueB! I actually checked that site, it's one of my favorites... unfortunatley, it doesn't address segundas (or western bits, for that matter). Thank you for taking the time to find it though!

[Dawn]

Segundas aren't necessarily a 'western' bit.

I think (from looking at them) that the main difference between the 2 is the tongue action.

[Shotgun93]

What are you comparing? The two mouthpiece types or the snaffle vs. the curb?

[MyBelgianAzzy]

I should have been VERY more specific.

Mouthpeices only. My trunk is full of single and double jointed mouths, mullen mouths, low ports, and a segunda.

In another members thread, someone posted what *I* would consider a VERY high port- and a western member said it was more a medium port. To me, the "medium port" looked like a segunda.

My questions are- do segunda work the same as a medium-port western bit, assuming they have IDENTICAL cheeks? Or are segundas meant to work differently?

At my barn, segundas are used on horses that "root" with their heads- we assume (and use) the mouthpeice to lift them up.

I THINK I understand that western riders use the higher ported mouths to help LOWER their horse's heads, rather than lift them.

Can someone explain how or even if they work differently?

Thank you!

[endurgirl]

This is like the bit I show my cutting horse in except the port is the square shape (which I didn't want, they were sold out of the rounded ports) and I consider them to be medium ports. What I consider high was the cathedral that was in the other post you were referring to.
State Line Tack - Smooth Correction Bit

But yeah, we will put a higher ported bit in to 'remind' the horse to put the head down.

[Dawn]

I just read around a bit.
According to what I read....

The segunda provides tongue pressure while still giving enough tongue relief allowing the tongue to move in order to swallow.

This is how it differs from a ported bit.

But I believe you specified a correctional bit?
In the pictures I'm looking at, the 'segunda' part of the bit is angled. A correctional will be straight up and down.

Of course I'm looking at english bits here.

Okay, looking at some westerns. Yep, basically what I'm seeing is that the segunda offers more tongue pressure while being angled more in the mouth. The correctional offers more tongue relief while putting more pressure on the roof of the mouth.

[Shotgun93]

Well, it's hard to compare western to english, because plently of western riders use snaffles and plenty of english riders use curbs. The difference lies in the bit used, not in the discipline.

As far as mouthpieces go, having never seen a segunda bit in person, I would imagine that it puts pressure on the tongue and the pallete. The little point parts wouln't give much of a relief on the tongue. (unless those are jointed, then it's a different story) It would probably keep a horse from hanging on the bit, because hanging on the bit would be uncomfortable. But, as I said, this is just a guess because I have never actually seen one.

A correctional bit is more of a transition bit, a lot of trainers use to "lighten" up their horse. The swivel pieces provide lateral flexion, which is something that the segunda doesn't appear to have. Many trainers also like it for collection on a loose rein. The size and length of shanks can offer different leverage amounts.
here are two examples: