[FancyDocsGal]

I was rambling around the internet this morning. I stumbled on an odd one! I thought all the genetics gurus here could give me some thoughts on this one. This website has a stud that is the only sable cream dun in world, according to the billing. He is a beautiful buckskin color. The website says "A triple dilute carrier DNA tested. His genotype is ataEeChchCrcrDd. He carries a champagne gene, dun gene, and a creme gene." His name is Sierra Hesa Chief. I don't know if the rules of this forum will allow a link to the website, but if so I would love to post it here, so you can see him. He is a striking color to say the least.
My question is what type of colors would you get breeding to sorrels, blacks, or others?

[JBandRio]

Breeding to the colors you listed gets the possibility of every combination of black, bay, chestnut with or without champagne, with or without dun, with or without Cream.

His DNA test could NOT say Dd though because there is not test for Dun. So either they are lying, or they are making an assumption of Dd based on offspring.

[FancyDocsGal]

Oh heck folks. I just went to all breeds pedigree and he is posted there. The picture there is not the best, but at least ya'll can get a look see.
Sierra Hesa Chief Quarter Horse

[cassidy]

genetics always confuse me i jus looked at his pic an hae to say doenst look any thing special to me lol

[Top Dun]

ata Brown and no agouti so brown and black bases and in sorrels this won't effect colors.

Ee Black or Sorrel bases

Chch 50% chance of Champagne, BUT how do they know he's champagne for SURE since there is not DNA test for champagne? He looks pretty much like a typical dunskin based on that one photo on all breed. So How are they proving this one?

Crcr 50% chance of a cream gene

Dd 50% chance of Dun gene and he has obvious dun markings based on the one photo I saw of him on all breed.
Edited
having seen Multiple photos on the web, he's deffinately dun, LOOK like he's got cream also. AND the posibility of champagne or barlink. I think if they want to claim him a champagne, IF they haven't already done so, they need to DNA test him for barlink ( pseudo champage) also.
But notice that they are NOT claiming DNA test only Genotype.

Gotta say though he's a pretty nice looking colt.

[Top Dun]

dun's pretty easy to See externally based on the markings and if only one parent in the pedigree does NOT carry dun, It's easy to accurately Guess that the horse is a Dd. For example I just bred my bay roan appaloosa mare to a Grulla blanket stallion. IF my foal comes out with the dun coat, I KNOW my foal will be Dd because the mare doesn't carry it . However if I breed my Bay dun leopard or my Red dun blanket to same said Grulla I won't know for sure if the foal is Dd or DD.

Personally I'm more concerned about the claim of the Champagne gene. There is also NOT a DNA test for champagne and it's effects on color are NOT as well understood. I'd far more accept a claim of Dd for a horse just based on looks and Pedigree than I would for Champage. UNLESS this horse was used in the DNA study testing. As the Test is as of yet UNAVAILABLE to the general public.
Since we know agouti, black and cream are all testable then those are all ok.

And finally there is also the "Apricot" gene AKA Pearl/ Barlink
The Champagne Gene

A later DNA test by the UC Davis revealed that she carries the apricot (Apr) gene, a recessive gene that, when combined with the cream gene, creates a pseudo-champagne.

which is the Barlink gene and IS testable for.
Recent breakthroughs in colour genetics « Bridlepath

The brilliant folks at UC Davis have recently announced that they have come up with a genetic test for the Barlink dilution, which they are calling “apricot”. The tests are done using mane or tail hair with the roots attached.

Originally Posted by JBandRio

Breeding to the colors you listed gets the possibility of every combination of black, bay, chestnut with or without champagne, with or without dun, with or without Cream.

His DNA test could NOT say Dd though because there is not test for Dun. So either they are lying, or they are making an assumption of Dd based on offspring.

[Haas Horse Farm]

Here is the link to the page of the people who sold him and owned his dam....
Performance Horses For Sale - MAVERICK PERFORMANCE HORSES

Here is the link to the new owners....
Chief

We know he is dun from the markings. His color has been tested for Ee Crcr and champagne has been verified by ICHR. I do not think you can get much better testing than that. There is no test for champange or dun but the fact that the horse carries both have been confirmed by markings.

The sire Blue Sierra Pine is deceased and this is one of his last offspring... His sire was also a cream carrier and brindle to boot.

The mare is tested and proven to be a brown champagne aka sable so we know that there is zero agouti there just the brown At gene from the dam and the black a from the sire. There is zero need to test since that is obvious from the color of the offspring. If he was tested it would be Aa as At will test a. It can be written At or at ... it really matters not since it is not "a" for black but @ for brown.

The horse can produce offspring of any color EXCEPT BAY, unless the mare provides the Agouti, sorrel/chestnut, brown or black then you ad the possibility of dun, champange and cream.

[Haas Horse Farm]

Originally Posted by Top Dun

ata Brown and no agouti so brown and black bases and in sorrels this won't effect colors. YES IT WILL.... no bay offspring unless the mare provides it.

Ee Black or Sorrel bases

Chch 50% chance of Champagne, BUT how do they know he's champagne for SURE since there is not DNA test for champagne? He looks pretty much like a typical dunskin based on that one photo on all breed. So How are they proving this one? The mare is sable champagne and this colt was born with blue eyes which are now amber and he also has the needed champagne markings on his PPP.

Crcr 50% chance of a cream gene Sire has the cream gene and this colt has been tested to have it.

Dd 50% chance of Dun gene and he has obvious dun markings based on the one photo I saw of him on all breed. The colt was born with tons of dun factor and the sire also has brindle to boot. It is unknown at this time if the colt will have the brindle or not since there is no horse with as many genes as this one previously. They are not going to claim the brindle, unless it is obvious later and it will be interesting to see if any of the offspring have it. I cannot remember if it can skip or not.

Edited
having seen Multiple photos on the web, he's deffinately dun, LOOK like he's got cream also. AND the posibility of champagne or barlink. I think if they want to claim him a champagne, IF they haven't already done so, they need to DNA test him for barlink ( pseudo champage) also.
But notice that they are NOT claiming DNA test only Genotype.

Gotta say though he's a pretty nice looking colt.

TD please get your terminology up to date... Apricot was thrown out long ago and now called Pearl. (Thanks to a campaign by many ICHR members.) There is no chance on this horse having the pearl gene since the parents are known and not paint or barlink or any lines that have it... There is no reason to test for pearl since the dam is sable champagne... and that is a KNOWN fact. The sire was grullo with the cream gene and this colt is ICHR bragged about.

I honestly do not understand your position on this as the parents all have the correct genes to contribute. I know this for a FACT as I tried to buy his dam and my DH would not let me. They were coming to trail ride at Emminence MO and I wanted to meet them in Rolla to buy this mare when she was in foal. I did not have enough money of my own and my DH would not help me since the mare was a hard keeper.

[FancyDocsGal]

Thanks for posting the sites. I especially like the site with his sire and dam. I was just looking for ranch bred horse in South Carolina and happened upon him. I think that head shot of him is stunning.
I must admit though the genetic banter on all the posts have me befuddled. BUT WHAT ELSE IS NEW! I am always dumbfounded by all that "stuff"!

[Haas Horse Farm]

Originally Posted by FancyDocsGal

Thanks for posting the sites. I especially like the site with his sire and dam. I was just looking for ranch bred horse in South Carolina and happened upon him. I think that head shot of him is stunning.
I must admit though the genetic banter on all the posts have me befuddled. BUT WHAT ELSE IS NEW! I am always dumbfounded by all that "stuff"!

Maybe these sites will help...
Coat Color Genetics

Home Page

Coat Color Table