[JBandRio]

Rather than drag the fairly large thread where this was discussed/debated/doubted back up, I thought I'd make a new thread.

The question was about seeing a foal who was only Sabino as a product of 2 parents who are Tobiano + Sabino. The face white was the subject of contention - is a Tobi with face white always a Sabino as well? Well, not always, as it could be from Frame or Splash, but the "normal" face white is indeed from Sabino.

http://www.umenno.com/img/2005/tinna3.jpg
http://www.umenno.com/img/2005/tina1.jpg

The mom is present in the first picture and is clearly Sabino by her face white. The dad is Umenno, pictured here:
http://www.umenno.com/img/2006/umenno_beach1.jpg

So there you have it - 2 Tobis who have "normal" face white, clearly Sabino, who produced a Sabino-only foal.

[ACCphotography]

To my eyes... that foals appears to have splash (the sire appears to have it as well, not certain about the dam but it's possible). It could even have tobiano. I have seen tobis with less white than that.

ACC

[JBandRio]

The parents are not Splash - doesn't exist in those lines. I also see no indication of Tobi on this foal (both pics are the same one). No white over the hock or knee, no white patch at the tail, not little white patch in the mane.

I'm not really sure what about the faces makes you see Splash The mare's face markings, as well as the foal, is very classic Sabino. The mare is a little less "classic" with that jagged edge on top, but still very much in the realm of not unusual Sabino. The chin white is also very common with Sabino.

[Doll-Face]

Know next to nothing about color genetics but I DO know that filly is WOW, man!

[SC Sonoma]

I believe it

Those 2 tobis don't have the classic paw prints of a homozygous tobi (not saying they have to... but assuming that they are heterozygous).

So, they won't always throw tobi if they are hetero.

So, neither threw tobi but at least one threw sabino.

Was the question whether or not it was possible?

[ACCphotography]

Without testing, how can it be known the lines do not carry splash?

I have seen tobi as minimal as two short rear socks, nothing more.

The foal's "bottom heavy, falling off one side of the face" marking looks very splash to me. The straightness of the leg markings on the foal are very interesting and not typical of sabino by any means. To me this indicates splash most likely, tobi second most likely. The sire has a very straight line of white on his hind legs and a "collar" that is very typical of splash. I don't really see splash in the dam, but definitely see sabino there.

A chin spot is every bit as likely, if not more likely, to be splash as it is to be sabino.

ACC

[Mutrok]

Excues me for just a moment in my uninformedness, lol...

What is the difference between splash and sabino? Is it mostly the straight leg markings rather than being jagged? How is a face marking for splash different than sabino? Thanks!

[Tymacs Girl]

Honestly, I don't see how the foal is sabino. The socks aren't all that jagged or have the spots that signify sabino. Nor do I see any body spalshes except for on the side of mouth. So maybe minimal sabino because of the white that extends down the side of the mouth, but I don't see any other signs of this foal being sabino. When I think sabino I think of our Paisley, and our mare Alex, and their foal Rowena.

[Haas Horse Farm]

I have to agree and ask how do you know splash instead of sabino. I see lots of sabino but no splash. Would you please explain why you think so? I am confused as to why every time I look at a horse that is clearly sabino you want to call it splash. There is not test for splash so what makes you so sure that it is? What you have described I have seen more commonly with sabino and not splash... Splash is not that common. LOL
If it had blue eyes and an apron face I would think splash without a doubt.



This mare is thought to be homozygous for splash ... she is owned by a friend and to me she and the offspring have very clear splash looking heads and eyes. The offspring is Tobiano splash.

I know it might seem like it but I am not trying to argue ACC I am trying to understand what you have learned that I am not following. Do you have a source for your paint pattern information so I can learn more. Many many things I have studied all say that often sabino and splash are confused. That is why some think that sabino should be a blue eye marker.

[Haas Horse Farm]

Originally Posted by TymacsGirl

Honestly, I don't see how the foal is sabino. The socks aren't all that jagged or have the spots that signify sabino. Nor do I see any body spalshes except for on the side of mouth. So maybe minimal sabino because of the white that extends down the side of the mouth, but I don't see any other signs of this foal being sabino. When I think sabino I think of our Paisley, and our mare Alex, and their foal Rowena.

This should make the comparison easier... I see jagged in the same places on the colt. Look at the points on the inside of the back leg... The jagged edges on the mouth white... Look at the inside/edge of the hair in the flank... that also looks sabino to me... I see lots of white there.

I have to say that you refering to body splashes as a sabino marking was hillarious to me. I know what you meant but in paint terms that would be very confusing... There is not heavy white on the bottom which to me is splash and not enough white on the face for me to see splash.