[JetdecksComet]

I could see there being splash in the original foal. Maybe even splash + sabino.

I suspect splash in ladyloves "tobiano" as well. That "huge" snip at the bottom is pretty common for minimal splash. His face marking is similar to my "blue eye tobiano"... and I'm positive her eye is due to splash.

For those who want to learn more about minimal splash, please visit:

http://colormorgans.tripod.com/splashwhite.htm

Certainly fun to debate and speculate until we have a test to "prove" this stuff.

[ryu2832]

Originally Posted by JetdecksComet

Certainly fun to debate and speculate until we have a test to "prove" this stuff.

Exactly.

It is not possible, in almost all cases, to assign correct genetype by looking at phenotype. These genes are active during early development, there are hundreds of factors that influence the cells at that time that could make x pattern look more like y pattern.

Until all the chrome genes are elucidated it's just speculation.

[Haas Horse Farm]

ryu,

What are your feelings on blue eyes on sabino... and the frame gene being no white on the legs?

Do you have a favorite web site or book for information on... this is splash, this is frame, this is sabino, this is tobiano?

[JetdecksComet]

Originally Posted by ryu2832

Exactly.

It is not possible, in almost all cases, to assign correct genetype by looking at phenotype. These genes are active during early development, there are hundreds of factors that influence the cells at that time that could make x pattern look more like y pattern.

Until all the chrome genes are elucidated it's just speculation.

Oh, I agree. I have my personal theories that I am sure most people would not agree with. At this point, that's all it is: speculation. I observe horses of many different patterns, use available tests to compare and rule out patterns and then make my best guess as to what I am seeing. Now I can only wait for tests to see if my guesses were correct or not.

Waiting for these tests is like a kid waiting for Santa!

[Banat]

Is Khartoon Klassic splash or sabino? Or both?

[Haas Horse Farm]

http://www.khartoonkhlassic.com/

[Banat]

I know he's advertized as a sabino, but he looks like the description given for Splash - the white curving off the side of the face, the white getting larger toward the bottom of the face, the distinct lines between white/color (I think I'm getting that right) and passing the blue eye (if acc is correct about that being linked more closely to Splash than Sabino)

I do not feel like I have a complete understanding about the differences between splash and sabino

[JBandRio]

Yes, KK is very likely Splash. Sabino might be in there too, and very likely is the way his white legs have jagged edges coming up the fronts of them.

[ryu2832]

Originally Posted by Haas Horse Farm

ryu,

What are your feelings on blue eyes on sabino... and the frame gene being no white on the legs?

Do you have a favorite web site or book for information on... this is splash, this is frame, this is sabino, this is tobiano?

I'm not a chrome person, couldn't tell a Sabino from a Tobiano.... I'm a Molecular Genetics geek. Here's what I've found out from a little snooping online:

First: A new paper on Dominate White for all interested. They found the genes for DW in Arabian, TB, and a couple other breeds (not Drafts). All are in KIT gene.

PLoS Genet. 2007 Nov 9;3(11):e195
Allelic Heterogeneity at the Equine KIT Locus in Dominant White (W) Horses.

Second, looks like they have separated Tobaino finally from the EDNRB gene (Overo), and have settled it on the KIT gene. Which is important for this discussion.

Third: Onto the eye development. All eye colors are the result of one pigment: Melanin. The Iris is made up of pigmented fibrovascular tissue that concentrates pigment in membrane bound granules. Lots of pigment=Brown, Some=green, little or none=blue.

Putative genes I have seen mentioned in premature cell death in eye pigmentation are PAX family genes, EDN3 genes, and EDNRB genes.

So following that the:
KIT gene is responsible for: Roan, Sabino, Tobiano, and W.
EDNRB is responsible for OLWS.
and the other 'Overo' patterns are attributed to the EDN3, RET, and PAX3 genes.

I could find no mention of the KIT gene causing Blue eyes in any organism.

So if I had to put money on the patterns that cause blues eyes it would be the Overo family of markings, not Sabino. If it looked like a Sabino with a blue eye, my best guess is that it is carrying a minimally expressed Overo family gene.

I have no ideas on the Frame pattern... sorry.

[ryu2832]

To answer the other question, for my sources.

I search around on the internet until I get the search terms that describe best what I'm looking for (gene names, technical terms), then go to pubmed and search for current articles.

Most of my genetics books don't cover the new genes anymore so they can get me started, but I have to look online for the current stuff. Even most of the websites are 5-6 months behind the journal articles....