[ACCphotography]

Well, Tymacsgirl, the theory is that all white markings are sabino, not just the jaggedy ones like on the foal above. A horse with just one tiny sock is sabino.

Mutrok, I basically gave my explanation of the difference between splash and sabino, however it is all theory as we can't test for either yet. But here are the splash basics:
1: Blue eyes that can not be attributed to frame.
2: Bottom heavy face markings.
3: Falling off one side of the face markings.
4: Straight (to the point of square), clean edges anywhere on the body, but particularly the forehead, legs, and collar.
5: Bald faces.
6: 4 even white legs.
Remember though, splash can be as minimal as
just a snip.

Sabino usually have pointed stockings that are not frequently even on all 4 and usually have typically marked faces (blazes, stars, etc.).

ACC

[Tymacs Girl]

Haas helped me out on that one. Thanks. I didn't realize I sounded so confusing. Haha.

[ACCphotography]

Haas, I'll address your questions on my lunch in a few minutes....

ACC

[Tymacs Girl]

Originally Posted by accphotography

Well, Tymacsgirl, the theory is that all white markings are sabino, not just the jaggedy ones like on the foal above. A horse with just one tiny sock is sabino.

Mutrok, I basically gave my explanation of the difference between splash and sabino, however it is all theory as we can't test for either yet. But here are the splash basics:
1: Blue eyes that can not be attributed to frame.
2: Bottom heavy face markings.
3: Falling off one side of the face markings.
4: Straight (to the point of square), clean edges anywhere on the body, but particularly the forehead, legs, and collar.
5: Bald faces.
6: 4 even white legs.
Remember though, splash can be as minimal as
just a snip.

Sabino usually have pointed stockings that are not frequently even on all 4 and usually have typically marked faces (blazes, stars, etc.).

ACC

See just because a horse hase 4 white legs, I don't and won't deem them sabino. Case in point:

This is Secret Moonbeam aka Dixie, our Secretariat grandaughter, she has four white legs and a big blaze. She's not sabino, she just has chrome.


We bred her to Paisley, Secret, Dixie's foal, came out with the least amount of white of all 7 foals this year.

Now I'm not saying that all horses out there with 4 white legs are just chrome, but a good bit of them are.

[SC Sonoma]

Originally Posted by accphotography

Well, Tymacsgirl, the theory is that all white markings are sabino, not just the jaggedy ones like on the foal above. A horse with just one tiny sock is sabino.

Mutrok, I basically gave my explanation of the difference between splash and sabino, however it is all theory as we can't test for either yet. But here are the splash basics:
1: Blue eyes that can not be attributed to frame.
2: Bottom heavy face markings.
3: Falling off one side of the face markings.
4: Straight (to the point of square), clean edges anywhere on the body, but particularly the forehead, legs, and collar.
5: Bald faces.
6: 4 even white legs.
Remember though, splash can be as minimal as
just a snip.

Sabino usually have pointed stockings that are not frequently even on all 4 and usually have typically marked faces (blazes, stars, etc.).

ACC

By your explanation of splash, my mare would be both splash and sabino.

Splash
Blue eye
Bottom heavy face marking
Falling off one side of face marking

Sabino
Jagged lines on legs
Uneven socks

[JBandRio]

Originally Posted by SC Sonoma

I believe it

Those 2 tobis don't have the classic paw prints of a homozygous tobi (not saying they have to... but assuming that they are heterozygous).

So, they won't always throw tobi if they are hetero.

So, neither threw tobi but at least one threw sabino.

Was the question whether or not it was possible?

LOL, no, that wasn't exactly the question. The discussion was around the Tobianos with face white being Tobi + Sabino (or Tovero, if you are one who puts Sabino into the Overo category). The question was "if those Tobis with face white ARE tobi+sabino, then show me the offspring of 2 such patterns where the offspring is ONLY Sabino. Here it is.

Body spots are not common in Sabino. The leg markings don't have to be flagrantly jagged. Splash would have presented itself obviously in these lines if it was present, somewhere along the way - it's not there. The Tobi on the sire's side comes from Samber. If he had Splash, it would show up in his lines SOMEwhere - there are enough of them out there. It's just not present, period. Chin white is very common in Sabinos. Very. But again, not a requirement, and though the presence of it can indicate Splash, particularly if it continues up the underside of the jaw, the existence of it does not mean Splash IS there.

Tymac, your girl is obviously Sabino, but not all Sabinos have whites as high as the knees/hocks. Spotting is common in Sabinos, particularly in the face white, but it's not a requirement by far.

I have a boarder horse here who is TBxPerch (3/4 1/4 I think) who has low socks that are fairly straight across but not like a LINE, and "normal" face white. I'm pretty sure he's not Splash

He's the one in the middle.

[Tymacs Girl]

http://www.mustangs4us.com/Horse%20Colors/sabino.htm

Sabino has a wide range of variations: Maximum Sabino is all white; Roaned Sabino is evenly roaned and dappled over the body and face. Clydesdale and Shire draft horses are sabino, although they rarely look "pinto."

Minimal sabinos also do not look pinto - they may show as little as a white chin and a small but jagged-edged sock or a few belly spots. These minimal sabinos are genetically capable, in may cases, of producing wildly colored offspring. These Minimal Sabinos are a common source of so-called "crop-out" paint/pinto horses from supposedly solid-colored parents.

To qualify for the Sabino Registry a horse must have one or more of the following: Wide Face White,Odd Shaped White On Face,White Chin Spot,White Lip Spot,Milky Chin,Socks or Stocksings that come to a POINT,Lightening Strikes,Belly Spots or Splashes,White Spots Under Jaw or Throat,White Spots on Legs,Roaning withOUT True Roan Parent, Odd white Patches, or Born White From Colored Parents.

[JBandRio]

Originally Posted by TymacsGirl

See just because a horse hase 4 white legs, I don't and won't deem them sabino. Case in point:

This is Secret Moonbeam aka Dixie, our Secretariat grandaughter, she has four white legs and a big blaze. She's not sabino, she just has chrome.

She's CLASSIC Sabino!

We bred her to Paisley, Secret, Dixie's foal, came out with the least amount of white of all 7 foals this year.

If that's the foal lying down that you're referring to, again, CLASSIC Sabino.

Now I'm not saying that all horses out there with 4 white legs are just chrome, but a good bit of them are.

4 white legs on any horse isn't "just" chrome - it's some form of Sabino, Tobiano, or Splash. Pinto patterns.

[ACCphotography]

Originally Posted by Haas Horse Farm

What you have described I have seen more commonly with sabino and not splash... Splash is not that common. LOL
If it had blue eyes and an apron face I would think splash without a doubt.

Again... how do you know??? Splash IS that common!!! It is such a common misconception that it HAS to be a bald faced... it amazes me people don't understand how widely patterns can vary.

This mare is thought to be homozygous for splash ... she is owned by a friend and to me she and the offspring have very clear splash looking heads and eyes. The offspring is Tobiano splash.

This mare is no question splash, though I don't buy that she is homozygous. But this is a loud variation of splash. They are not ALL like this.

Do you have a source for your paint pattern information so I can learn more. Many many things I have studied all say that often sabino and splash are confused. That is why some think that sabino should be a blue eye marker.

Lots and LOTS of research. And no... sabino does not cause blue eyes. If you have a blue eyed non frame, you have a splash.

This should make the comparison easier... I see jagged in the same places on the colt. Look at the points on the inside of the back leg... The jagged edges on the mouth white... Look at the inside/edge of the hair in the flank... that also looks sabino to me... I see lots of white there.

I had not noticed the jagged edges on the right side, they are clean lined on the left. The jagged edges on the mought white scream splash, so does the moustache. The hair inside the flank is normal baby blonde hair, not white.

See just because a horse hase 4 white legs, I don't and won't deem them sabino. Case in point:
This is Secret Moonbeam aka Dixie, our Secretariat grandaughter, she has four white legs and a big blaze. She's not sabino, she just has chrome.

There is no such thing. Chrome is sabino, sabino is chrome. Thoroughbreds are an EXCELLENT example of a sabino carrying breed and a terrible example of a "chrome" breed. Unless you want to believe the white foals are not maximum sabinos, in which case I want to know what you think they are.

By your explanation of splash, my mare would be both splash and sabino.
Splash
Blue eye
Bottom heavy face marking
Falling off one side of face marking
Sabino
Jagged lines on legs
Uneven socks

This filly is NO QUESTION either frame and/or splash. My first guess would have actually been frame, but in absence of that, yes... no doubt splash. Frame does not put white on the legs, so she either has sabino doing that (likely) and/opr she has splash. I'd like to know what her frame test came back as.

If he had Splash, it would show up in his lines SOMEwhere - there are enough of them out there. It's just not present, period.
I have a boarder horse here who is TBxPerch (3/4 1/4 I think) who has low socks that are fairly straight across but not like a LINE, and "normal" face white. I'm pretty sure he's not Splash

Oh it probably has shown up somewhere, it's just not been recognized as such as people are still so clueless about splash and it can present so minimally.
I agree the draft cross is probably not splash. I didn't say straight socks were ALWAYS splash.

Sabino Registry

There's a Sabino Registry?! Good Lord... help us!!!

She's CLASSIC Sabino!

Agreed, hands down, no question.

ACC

[Haas Horse Farm]

Originally Posted by accphotography

This filly is NO QUESTION either frame and/or splash. My first guess would have actually been frame, but in absence of that, yes... no doubt splash. Frame does not put white on the legs, so she either has sabino doing that (likely) and/opr she has splash. I'd like to know what her frame test came back as.
ACC

These tested positive for frame but you are saying that the white on the legs is not frame?