[APHAAQHA]

I was talking to a friend the other day, and realized that I don't really know what Rolkur is. I read a little article about it once and seen some pretty scary pictures, but what is it exactly? From what I understand, it's a form of dressage training that has recenly surfaced and is VERY
controversial. Anyone know more about it?

[IIIBarsV]

AKA Hyperflexion, it involves cranking the horse's head faaar behind the vertical and trying to make them touch their lips to their chest. This requires a lot of arm strength.

To put it simply... "Rollkur is a form of bad riding technique that some people think works, but actually creates more problems for them and the horse".

Problems arising:

- Muscle damage, fatigue injuries.

- Chiro issues, especially in the poll and first 5 cervical vertebrae

- Breathing problems (to a point... the horse is not suffocating, but they are not breathing easily)

- horse becomes hard-mouthed SOB

- Horse is basically being pulled on the forehand, loses drive from hind end.

- Can tighten up lumbar (back) and become sore.


Unfortunately, like peanut-rolling in WP used to be, if it wins... people copy-cat it. Blame the judges.

[HopperVal]

In a very brief description, Rollkur is most prevalent in dressage, but is not only seen there, and is when a horse’s neck and head are bent far behind the vertical without any true collection. Used correctly and briefly, it is a training tool. Abused, it is very physically detrimental to the horse.

This is my understanding of it but I am no expert, so please excuse me if I get my facts mixed up a bit.

[seaecho]

I think prolonged Rolkur is, in a word, abuse. Briefly, maybe, although I personally wouldn't do it AT ALL. The horse's neck has to get very sore and very tired in a very short period of time, not to mention the possible injury that can occur, as mentioned in above post.

[CrazyHorse]

My question is why do it? What happened to the natural beauty of the well bred, well trained dressage horse? Why make them suffer like that? I suppose it's along the same lines as the Big Lick Walkers. Do folks honestly believe causing a horse pain and suffering is beautiful? What's natural about it? Do those who practice the Rolkur method not care about the horse's well being at all? *sigh*

ETA: This video explains it well IMHO

YouTube - rollkur explained

[Lyre]

On another forum, a member posted something veeeeery interesting.

YouTube - documentation hyperflexion clip 4a

Edward Gal uses it on Tortilas. This is the horse and rider who got a score of 90% here

YouTube - Edward Gal and Moorlands Totilas 90.7% KUR European championship Windsor

And this lead me to the question: WHY?! Why do it? Why is rollkur necessary? What are the benefits?

If it's supposed to be beneficial by adding flexibility - it seems to completely defy the logic of stretching a horse. It is restricting, not freeing. It is over-stretching/contorting one or two muscles and contracting and restricting a million others at the same time.

Not only that. But if you're going to spend millions of dollars on a horse and competing in this sport, why not ride it like a civilised person?!

No matter which way you look, grand prix riders - the best dressage riders in the world - are yanking on their horses in leverage bits. Grand prix riders like Edward Gal who are obviously capable of doing brilliantly without rollkur. I just don't understand it. I suppose people just do whatever it takes to win in so-called "competitive dressage", no? I'm not sure the judges should be blamed completely. After all, it is the choice of the rider to do this. However I do wonder how rollkur ridden horses do well regardless.

I would love one of the riders who do rollkur to really explain WHY.

It does bother me, but only when I see it. I don't sit around all day going "OMG they use rollkur this is ruining my life and my riding!" It's just that I'm really interested in dressage and it disappoints me that top riders who should be role models do this.

"What makes this training method so special?"
Sjef Janssen: "Ten golden medals."

(^ I don't actually know if that quote is accurate, but it portrays how I feel in any case...)

[XxLiveToRidexX]

Hmmmm..this really is quite interesting/strange and I have never actually heard of it before.

The ONLY time I ever ask a horse to stretch like that is after were done riding. I will ask him to bring his head to each side and touch my knee and then touch his chest. I would NEVER work a horse in that frame.

The only time I feel that this could be acceptable is either at the beginning or ending of a ride at the halt checking for suppleness.

I also would NEVER pull a horse to that frame, it has to be willing.

[meljean]

Looks so sad for the horses, and in this day and time of supposedly enlightened horse people, doesn't say much for us as human beings does it?

I put this in with the Big Lick, horse tripping done at Mexican rodeos, wild horse races, and the like.

And the really horrible thing, the people that I saw on these videos, and in other things I looked at to see what this was. These are monied, educated, supposedly well rounded individuals. Not some back woods cretin, who doesn't know any better.
And that is the saddest thing of all.

[Kodachrome]

Lyre, I'm with you - I would love to have one of these big named riders come out and say WHY they use it. I just don't understand. Really, it seems to be against everything Dressage is supposed to be about?

[imjustjoking22]

The rollkur thing makes me giggle a bit because my horse's "nervous habit" is grooming his chest- I have seen him spend quite a bit of time with his head against his chest, rubbing it with his nose

He's never seemed to be uncomfortable doing that...and while I have never used rollkur, I frequently ride him behind the vertical- mostly in our warmups and cool downs, simply because that is his "happy" place. I don't ask for it (simply because that is not what scores well in dressage) but when we are doing stretchy trot/canter he picks his frame. Certainly doesn't bother me or him

That being said, I think it is a different thing entirely when a leverage bit is involved. I wouldn't force my horse's neck into any extreme position.