Regumate 48 hrs later.........

BettyBootsy · 05-23-2007, 12:53 PM

We hauled in 48 hrs after 10 days of regumate to insert antibotics and vet said her follicle is just about ready to go ahead and breed her today skip tomorrow breed again and do that breeding her 4x and she ought to take. So heres the question I brought her home got the stud prep and shes not in. She keeps kicking which is out of her nature the stud really didn't get excited about it either but she was squirting which she always does even if shes not in. So the vet was on the fence about waiting until tomorrow some follicles move fast he said so to go ahead today but since shes not ready any suggestions? This mare has been a pain. We started in Feb trying to get her to stick and finally hauled her in to see if she had other problems and theres nothing wrong just cycles weird always acts like shes in. Any suggestions would be helpful! Thanks!

Solsalia · 05-23-2007, 03:22 PM

I wonder if she squirts as a submissive gesture. My mare does when the dominate gelding gets after her. Just an idea I thought may be it, but if the vet says she's ready,,, that is strange indeed.

ches · 05-23-2007, 03:29 PM

Her body knows better that the vet's ultrasound. If she's a maiden mare she may need a little more "experience" before she'll take a stud, but if she's been live covered before and she's kicking now, I wouldn't breed her yet. You have a window once the folicle has let the egg go to get her covered anyway.

pantha11 · 05-23-2007, 03:44 PM

Hey girl,
Have you told the vet about the way she is acting, What does he think about all this.
If she is definatly not in, then you do have a prob....if she is kicking at the stud, she may not like him.
Just a thought....some mares are very picky.

Equine Repro · 05-23-2007, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BettyBootsy

We hauled in 48 hrs after 10 days of regumate to insert antibotics and vet said her follicle is just about ready to go ahead and breed her today skip tomorrow breed again and do that breeding her 4x and she ought to take.

Huh??? What were the antibiotics for? What pathogen was he/she treating? And, what size was the follicle? Hate to say it but in my experience...2 days after ceasing Regumate is NOT going to result in a mare that is receptive to breeding. Nope. Not gonna happen. Additionally, Regumate suppresses estrus display but not necessarily follicular activity. While it "can" work for trying to synchronize a mare's cycle, it's not always reliable.

Quote:

So heres the question I brought her home got the stud prep and shes not in. She keeps kicking which is out of her nature the stud really didn't get excited about it either but she was squirting which she always does even if shes not in.

That doesn't surprise me.

Quote:

So the vet was on the fence about waiting until tomorrow some follicles move fast he said so to go ahead today but since shes not ready any suggestions?

Err...yeah, OCCASIONALLY some follicles will progress quickly, but the norm is 3 to 5 mm's a day. So...again, what size was the follicle??? Ask the vet. He/she should be able to give you a definitive response on that. Suggestions? Yeah...tease her tomorrow and see what her response is.

Quote:

This mare has been a pain. We started in Feb trying to get her to stick and finally hauled her in to see if she had other problems and theres nothing wrong just cycles weird always acts like shes in. Any suggestions would be helpful! Thanks!

Yup. Put her on a course of P&E (progesterone and estradiol). It results in a very predictable progressions with most mares ovulating within a fairly tight window of time. Starting in february it does not surprise me you had difficulty. It's not breeding season. You are just now coming into what is the height of the horses natural breeding season.

Hope that helps.

Kathy St.Martin
Equine Reproduction Short Courses
Short course details from Equine-Reproduction.com
Check out our spring enrollment special!

BettyBootsy · 05-23-2007, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Equine Repro

Huh??? What were the antibiotics for? What pathogen was he/she treating? And, what size was the follicle? Hate to say it but in my experience...2 days after ceasing Regumate is NOT going to result in a mare that is receptive to breeding. Nope. Not gonna happen. Additionally, Regumate suppresses estrus display but not necessarily follicular activity. While it "can" work for trying to synchronize a mare's cycle, it's not always reliable.

That doesn't surprise me.

Err...yeah, OCCASIONALLY some follicles will progress quickly, but the norm is 3 to 5 mm's a day. So...again, what size was the follicle??? Ask the vet. He/she should be able to give you a definitive response on that. Suggestions? Yeah...tease her tomorrow and see what her response is.

Yup. Put her on a course of P&E (progesterone and estradiol). It results in a very predictable progressions with most mares ovulating within a fairly tight window of time. Starting in february it does not surprise me you had difficulty. It's not breeding season. You are just now coming into what is the height of the horses natural breeding season.

Hope that helps.

Kathy St.Martin
Equine Reproduction Short Courses
Short course details from Equine-Reproduction.com
Check out our spring enrollment special!

Okay the antibotics were as a percaution to infection the way I understood it and same with second opinion was she has a uterus that goes up over and back in and down sort of tilted so to speak. I don't think I'm saying it right. I can show ya with my hands

She has some fluid not much but it's from the way her uterus is shaped or goes so it was a gentimycin he inserted in her. (I can't spell meds or medical terms very well sorry) He didn't state the size of the folicle. He closes at noon and we were there until 2 so I didn't have a chance to call him back. My mare usually never kicks shes a tramp so to speak

so her behavior is not her but were going to go back out in a few and try again if not first thing am and I will be able to get the vet too. My other mare were short cycling with a shot not regumate. The hormone injection is given when the foal is 20 days old to short cycle her right? then 5 days after we start breeding. Just dble checking myself.

Thanks guys! Oh shes had 2 foals and open last season.

BettyBootsy · 05-23-2007, 06:27 PM

She just wasn't all the way in earlier. We just got in from trying again and everything went well.

Equine Repro · 05-23-2007, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BettyBootsy

Okay the antibotics were as a percaution to infection the way I understood it and same with second opinion was she has a uterus that goes up over and back in and down sort of tilted so to speak.

<sigh>...<shaking head>...<beating head on keyboard>.... If there's no infection, then there is no reason to use antibiotics. Using it as a "precaution" is what's causing super infections. Additionally, if it is being used and there "is" a pathogen and the antibiotic that is being used isn't appropriate, it's how antibiotic resistant pathogens develop.

Quote:

I don't think I'm saying it right. I can show ya with my hands

She has some fluid not much but it's from the way her uterus is shaped or goes so it was a gentimycin he inserted in her. (I can't spell meds or medical terms very well sorry)

Gent is a really harsh antibiotic to use, especially on a breeding cycle. And, if she's got fluid in the uterus, then oxytocin would be more useful.

Quote:

He didn't state the size of the folicle. He closes at noon and we were there until 2 so I didn't have a chance to call him back. My mare usually never kicks shes a tramp so to speak

so her behavior is not her but were going to go back out in a few and try again if not first thing am and I will be able to get the vet too.

Listen to your mare.

Quote:

My other mare were short cycling with a shot not regumate. The hormone injection is given when the foal is 20 days old to short cycle her right? then 5 days after we start breeding. Just dble checking myself.

Thanks guys! Oh shes had 2 foals and open last season.

Prostaglandin is given 5 to 6 days after ovulation. If it was given when the foal was 20 days old, you probably really didn't need to bother. She would have been in season in a few days on her own. Average time to ovulation after receiving prostaglandin is 9.5 days. I hope your vet is recommdending the micro doses of prostaglandin and not the traditional 2 mls that causes sweating and cramping...

Kathy ST.Martin
Equine Reproduction Short Courses
Short course details from Equine-Reproduction.com
Check out our spring enrollment special!

ryu2832 · 05-23-2007, 07:32 PM

I have to strongly second everything Kathy is saying. This vet is giving you a load of you know what and charging you for it.

If your mare has a conformational issue you should be using the oxytocin protocol. Is she is holding fluid, you probably won't get rid of it without the oxytocin. The chances of her implanting in fluid--esp. if it has Gent. in it, is low. Gent. is very harsh. Why not use a product like Settle that is made for this if he is concerned about an infection during breeding?

And breeding 4x???!!!! If she has clearance problems, you want to time as close to ovulation as possible and just breed once.

What the vet is proposing sounds like a recipe for disaster to me. What's he charging for all of this? I'm sorry to be harsh, but I went down the same road, got charged $2000 for the season, and ended up with a really messed up mare that may not be able to get pregnant again.

Cruise the Equine Repro website--answers to all questions are there.

BettyBootsy · 05-23-2007, 08:09 PM

Wow girly chill!

First off we live cover and always when we breed outside mares it's always every other day 3x and generally the third time the will have took and will kick. That had never failed until our own mare with this issue. To be honest with you I posted for help because we owned our stud and geldings and mares we avoid owning until this year so somethings I don't know a whole lot about but need to learn and tend to be blonde so bare with me and help.

I did as you suggested and read up on foal heat and didn't breed my other mare on it so I'm learning. I also remembered what you had posted on my other thread and about the antibotic insert and thats why I went to a second vet and he actually agreed with the other vet so I didn't figure they were both wrong. The first vet is high but the second vet whom I use often has an awesome stud himself and breeds a lot too and he's actually cheap. Hes the type of guy that every so often he will not charge ya a visit. He only charged me a 190 bucks today for a my mare that we inserted, a hormone shot to go, cut my colt, wolf teeth, tetnus and antibotics for him.

The other vet would of charged about 300 bucks or better.

05-23-2007, 12:53 PM	#1
BettyBootsy Senior Member+ Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 3,183 Images: 87	Regumate 48 hrs later......... We hauled in 48 hrs after 10 days of regumate to insert antibotics and vet said her follicle is just about ready to go ahead and breed her today skip tomorrow breed again and do that breeding her 4x and she ought to take. So heres the question I brought her home got the stud prep and shes not in. She keeps kicking which is out of her nature the stud really didn't get excited about it either but she was squirting which she always does even if shes not in. So the vet was on the fence about waiting until tomorrow some follicles move fast he said so to go ahead today but since shes not ready any suggestions? This mare has been a pain. We started in Feb trying to get her to stick and finally hauled her in to see if she had other problems and theres nothing wrong just cycles weird always acts like shes in. Any suggestions would be helpful! Thanks!

05-23-2007, 03:22 PM	#2
Solsalia Senior Member+ Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Idaho Posts: 1,953 Images: 123 Blog Entries: 7	I wonder if she squirts as a submissive gesture. My mare does when the dominate gelding gets after her. Just an idea I thought may be it, but if the vet says she's ready,,, that is strange indeed. __________________ Because of them I strive to make everyday my best day.

05-23-2007, 07:32 PM	#9
ryu2832 Senior Member+ Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Iowa, USA Posts: 2,862 Images: 43	I have to strongly second everything Kathy is saying. This vet is giving you a load of you know what and charging you for it. If your mare has a conformational issue you should be using the oxytocin protocol. Is she is holding fluid, you probably won't get rid of it without the oxytocin. The chances of her implanting in fluid--esp. if it has Gent. in it, is low. Gent. is very harsh. Why not use a product like Settle that is made for this if he is concerned about an infection during breeding? And breeding 4x???!!!! If she has clearance problems, you want to time as close to ovulation as possible and just breed once. What the vet is proposing sounds like a recipe for disaster to me. What's he charging for all of this? I'm sorry to be harsh, but I went down the same road, got charged $2000 for the season, and ended up with a really messed up mare that may not be able to get pregnant again. Cruise the Equine Repro website--answers to all questions are there. __________________ Gene Pool: Warning, no lifegaurd on duty. "Advice is what we ask for when we already know the answer but wish we didn't." author Erica Jong

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05-23-2007, 03:29 PM	#3
ches Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 2,472 Images: 38	Her body knows better that the vet's ultrasound. If she's a maiden mare she may need a little more "experience" before she'll take a stud, but if she's been live covered before and she's kicking now, I wouldn't breed her yet. You have a window once the folicle has let the egg go to get her covered anyway.

05-23-2007, 03:44 PM	#4
pantha11 Senior Member+ Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Australia, Victoria. Posts: 1,426 Images: 20	Hey girl, Have you told the vet about the way she is acting, What does he think about all this. If she is definatly not in, then you do have a prob....if she is kicking at the stud, she may not like him. Just a thought....some mares are very picky.

05-23-2007, 06:27 PM	#7
BettyBootsy Senior Member+ Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 3,183 Images: 87	She just wasn't all the way in earlier. We just got in from trying again and everything went well.

05-23-2007, 08:09 PM	#10
BettyBootsy Senior Member+ Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 3,183 Images: 87	Wow girly chill! First off we live cover and always when we breed outside mares it's always every other day 3x and generally the third time the will have took and will kick. That had never failed until our own mare with this issue. To be honest with you I posted for help because we owned our stud and geldings and mares we avoid owning until this year so somethings I don't know a whole lot about but need to learn and tend to be blonde so bare with me and help. I did as you suggested and read up on foal heat and didn't breed my other mare on it so I'm learning. I also remembered what you had posted on my other thread and about the antibotic insert and thats why I went to a second vet and he actually agreed with the other vet so I didn't figure they were both wrong. The first vet is high but the second vet whom I use often has an awesome stud himself and breeds a lot too and he's actually cheap. Hes the type of guy that every so often he will not charge ya a visit. He only charged me a 190 bucks today for a my mare that we inserted, a hormone shot to go, cut my colt, wolf teeth, tetnus and antibotics for him. The other vet would of charged about 300 bucks or better.