[Bob Wenzel]

I am new with horses but would like to train my newly aquired 2 yr old paint. He has not been cut yet - they both have yet to drop. He usually does not like to be lead. I put a lead rope on him and he start to get a little upset. He will raise his head, shake it, and I usually give him a slight tug down and tell him "Quit!" He will ocassionally kick, crowd, and try to nip also. I purchased a new lead with the stud chain on it but have3 not used it yet. I would like to get him to lead respectfully before I start to lunge him.
Is gelding him necessary. I don't know if I will stud him out but I would like to know if it would make him easier to train. Thanks alot. Dancermule. frown

[Dawn]

You definately need to get him gelded. It will make him much easier to train, less dangerous, and healthier. He's two and they haven't dropped yet? You might want to get a vet out to see if he can geld him even though they might not have completely dropped.

[tn walker]

sounds like he could be a cryptorchid.. I'd definately ask the vet about his dropping. He's way past due...

[geraldine]

Hello ,i wish you well with your new horse .
how ever it is best if you start an understanding
from the start with out giving him cause to challenge you ,have you heard of natural training
and working with a pressure halter ,the pressure halter is not used to inflict pain ,and you would first use it to ask him to yeild to pressure.
but you have to teach him to yeild over a period of time and gently with only one step at a time .
if you could get a freind to make you a working halter or buy one do not attemp to go ahead on your own ,if there is a freind who understands
using the halter easy does it and not to much at once ,if you like i can pop back and help with the first steps if no one can help you .
but please understand used wrong and with pressure at the wrong times ,you miss the horses
ques it can cause upsets and confuse the colt and he may fight ,which you dont want.your day to day handling of this young colt will imprint his behaviour for the future ,if this is his first home and not having been with you long ,give him time to settle and just spend time asking for his trust and freindship.if you prefer not to use natural training i wish you much happiness with him.

[geraldine]

i do also feel that your colt should have dropped by now ,but sometimes with stress or up set or worry he can draw them up like a form of protection .it would not be wise to have him cut if only one is showing ,if he retains the other in his abdomin he will always show stallion behaviour ,hence in uk its against the law to remove one only ,but it happens .
you may try looking when he is fully relaxed as he may drop them or the one down .
sorry for saying a colt is not an ideal novice owners horse as they can show challenging behaviour and be unpredictable at times ,i have had stallions in my life time but with natural training ,we have had respect for each other and i have been lucky to have the right facilities ,so they can be horses in their own right with in a routein ,but when working they did not challenge me ,and mutual respect was foremost.
can i ask what inspired you to buy this young colt ,i ask this with respect i am not critising you .
best wishes geraldine.

[Bob Wenzel]

This horse was actually bought by someone who in turn gave him to my father because they thought him to be just a little to rough to work with. My dad owns him and together we are training him.(trying to)
Natural training?? Yes, I have heard of it and just today got ahold of Pat Parelli's book -Natural Horsemanship. It sounds like good training, can't wait to see results.
What kind of cost am I looking at to get him cut? Thanks, for the advice so far.

[Cntrysass20]

The cost of gelding depends on if he is a cryptorchid(sp?) or just "sucking up". I know my vet charges $250 to geld a normal colt, but he is over $500 for a cryptorchid. If he is a cryptorchid then I wouldnt suggest keeping him a stud, esp since you are a newbie to the horse world. Not only is the sperm count affected. But from what I was always told it is hereditary, correct me if I am wrong. Just curious, since he is 2 years old. Why wasnt he trained to lead already? Most ppl train almost at birth, its a lot easier, esp if you have one that wants to fight. Alot less weight to work with. A friend bought a yearling filly and we always wondered why she freaked out at even seeing a halter until we saw them halter train a 1 week old colt. OMG they are rough. I tend to go with the resistance free way. Seems to cause a lot less problems along the way. And if you search online you can find Monty's resistance free halters. I love them. Works on young to old horses. They are about $20-$25. Keep us informed on how your doing. And good luck.

[Bob Wenzel]

Thanks for the info. I don't know why he wasn't trained to lead very well. He was sold at auction and given to me. I plan on using Parelli's Nat. Horse Training techniques with him. Starting from the very basics in ground training. Thanks again - any advice appreciated.

[Grey Wolf]

Bob,

I'm a natural horsemanship advocate, using both Parelli and Lyons to train our horses. One of the very first things either of these gents will tell you is that you need professional help for stallions. I would modify that stance somewhat and say that if you were there to properly imprint a colt at birth and daily afterword, and started handling him and working immediately, you could probably bring him up via either of these methods, with the understanding it would still be difficult. To stallions, dominance is dang near a life or death issue, and they are s-l-o-w to submit, and they test again much more vigorously and more often than mares or geldings.

If you have no option but to do it yourself, and you have access to a round pen, I'd start with Lyons, I think. It sounds like your horse has some serious respect issues, and you aren't going to be able to work close to him at first, as Parelli's "seven games" require. You need to get him at liberty (no lunge or lead lines) in a round pen, and drive him away from you, make him change directions, and submit. Once you've got him changing directions more and more frequently with smaller and smaller cues, you teach him to turn and face you, then come. Then you can teach leading, and then start Parelli's seven games.

John Lyons has a video on foal training that uses the same techniques as you'll need, but again, it sounds like your two year old is already a handful, and you ought to seek out your nearest certified NH trainer (Lyons and Parelli are the only NH clinicians that certify other trainers that I'm aware of) to get him over the initial training. If you do it yourself, you can expect him to lunge at you, try to bite, rear, buck and kick - and that's before he's outta the stall!

It won't be pretty at first, but it can be done.

Best of luck! eek!

[Brenda]

I agree 100% with everything that Jeff said Stallions ar 10xs harder and it is much safer to work with them in a round pen at first than close up.
Brenda -John Lyons Certified Trainer