[cornhuskergirl]

If a horse rears and is in a relatively tight space (width wise), so that it is difficult to get him off balance and giving his hindquarters in tight circles, and the horse seems to be an immediate danger to people around it, is it ever appropriate to get part of the lead line around one of the front legs and bring him down gently to his knee?

If not, why not? And what would you recommend in this type of situation?

[Alliekk]

Not quite sure what you are specifically asking??? Is this something that has happened before? If so, please tell. Are you talking about in an area the size of a stall? Are you riding? Does he do this out of anger, habit, pain, training, etc? A few more details will be great.

My main answer to this problem is: A horse CANNOT rear while moving forward. Carry a crop and if he rears, MAKE him move forward. You can, however, appropriately teach a horse to "kneel" when asked.

[cornhuskergirl]

The situation happened this afternoon when I was bringing my husband's filly into the barn after I had handwalked her for about 15 - 20 minutes outside. I had already walked her out on the same path, which is on a slight downhill incline from the barn and has an approximately 6 ft. wide path (which is currently quite muddy), then 2 ft. of grass then a chainlink fence.

When we were coming back, the chainlink fence was on my left and I, of course, was leading from the left. Instead of going straight on the path (at the base of it), we veered gently to the left into the grass to go around the mud puddle that was there. At that point (we are assuming because of the puddle -- although she sees it every day), she pitched a temper tantrum. And began to rear. Backing at that point was not an option -- even once she was on the ground -- because of the slope and backing would have brought her straight into the puddle and I had no idea how deep it was or what sort of ground there was underneath it.

I sharply reprimanded her and plenty of people heard it and came running. The trainer at the barn asked if I was okay and I said yes. I circled her twice and tried to get her up the rest of the incline. And at that point she pitched a larger temper tantrum and began to buck towards the chain link fence and rear.

The trainer then took the lead rope and at that point the filly reared facing her and pawed the air -- striking out towards the head and face direction. At this point, the trainer used the "kneeling" option.

My husband only saw the tail end of the situation, but he is a little bit worried about the kneeling method ...

[Alliekk]

IMVHO, I would put a stud chain on her. Any sort of discipline error she makes you correct it. The SMALLEST thing like nudging you or walking closer than 2ft from you is considered a disciplinary error and MUST be corrected. She struck out because she took control of the situation. You are no longer herd leader. You are the one being told off. The BO did a good thing in making her do what THEY wanted to do, by bringing her to her knees. Also, take a crop out with you next time. If the space is narrow, oh well. Smack her in the rear and make those feet move. She is being naughty and you need to be firm with her. The problem with the "bringing the horse to their knees" trick is you have to practice, which means the horse has to rear. I would also suggest not walking her on this trail until the mud clears, even if that means by spring time. By the next winter season she will have matured enough to not have a fit. Never, ever, allow a fit to to happen. If she throws a temper tantrum, make it YOUR idea to move those feet. Just like when trying to catch a hard to catch horse. Instead of cooing them and shaking a grain bucket, you chase them away, making it YOUR idea for them to be moving their feet. Soon they will realize it would just be easier to politely concede.

[Alliekk]

P.S. sorry those tactics sound harsh, but your filly is DANGEROUS to the people around her and this needs to stop YESTERDAY.

[cornhuskergirl]

I definitely agree with you on all of those points, Alliekk. The only problem with avoiding that path is that the only other route to and from where we were going is through a narrow walkway with all of the cross-tie stalls for tacking up. There were two young girls getting ready for the lessons there and knowing my husband's horse's issues, I wanted to avoid that situation where there were other people around ...

Two weeks ago, there had been a split recommendation between the trainers at the barn about putting a chain on or switching to the Parelli rope halter. At that time, we decided to go for the "gentler" approach and go rope. I hate to use a chain with a yearling, but she is a big girl and I don't want her hurting herself or another person. I guess that is the next step though!

Again, thank you for your advice!

[jedy]

That was very, very aggresive behaviour. I'd like to stress the part, where you need to correct the slightest of misbevaviours, that way you avoid dealing with big problems (hopefully). I just found out yesterday what happens when the handler(me) fails to notice the tiniest warning signs that discipline is slipping. It's easy done when you don't have a habit of constantly looking out for them.

[Anne Peterson]

I haven't read other folks post on this so, I don't really what all has been said. If people are in danger because a horse has lost it's cool, it is ok, to me, to do what ever is necessary to keep those people safe. Naturally you don't want to do anything to hurt the horse but, if it comes to it, and you have to tie a horses legs up to save some one a trip to the hospital, I would do it in a heart beat.
I know a lot of people may not like what I've said but please remember that it is just an oppinion.

[cornhuskergirl]

Thank you all for your opinions -- I definitely agree with them! It just helps me to be able to show my husband that unbiased observers also have the same opinion that getting her to kneel was really the only answer yesterday to avoid someone getting seriously hurt (and I still have x-rays scheduled for two o'clock for a possible fracture of one of the bones in my foot -- so maybe I should say less hurt) ...

We are currently negotiating with someone on putting her in 60-days of training, since she has tried the patience of EVERY trainer and professional who has tried to touch her so far.

My heart is saying to give it one more try, since I feel sorry that she has bounced around a lot in her young life (a new home would be at least her 4th in less than 2 years). But, my head is saying that I really do not want to deal with her and her issues anymore. She is too much of a handful for me and quite honestly, I think too much of a handful for some of the trainers who have already looked at her and dealt with her ... There is one thing about being constantly vigilant around horses, which I have been taught since I was a little girl. There is another thing about having to constantly be vigilant about the next chance that she will have to "deliberately" inflict pain ... On Saturday, she was in cross ties and there were three people watching her head. She still found the lightening opportunity to turn around, grab me by the shoulder and bite down ...

[doublebarr]

Honestly, I think you need to totally hand her over to your husband at this point and say "You deal with it!". See if he doesn't change his mind quick-smart and decide selling her is the best idea. He thinks she is the bees knees then let him do everything with her and keep yourself out of the mix now. You are only making it easy for him at this point. Let him take some of his own medicine.