Rearing question

cornhuskergirl · 11-02-2009, 09:43 AM

Agreed doublebarr! I told him last night that I am not touching the filly again (and this time I am sticking to my promise/threat), that I prefer not to land myself in ICU. He told me that the filly just has issues with me (and anyone else who asks her to do anything that her "princessy" self does not want to do) ... Let's see what he does the next time she acts like a bucking bronco ...

I love my husband and I really do not want him to get hurt. But the soft voices of wisdom from professionals and myself do not seem to be working, so we will see if a dose of cold hard reality dealing with the "princess" on a daily basis works ...

Alliekk · 11-02-2009, 09:48 AM

If your trainers can't handle her, then they shouldn't be calling themselves trainers! How old is this horror filly? What breed/age is she?

cornhuskergirl · 11-02-2009, 10:13 AM

The little terror is AQHA and is 17 months old. Unfortunately, she is not that little though -- she just weight taped at 800 lbs. and is about 14.3-ish.

I just looked to see if I have any videos of her temper tantrums, but the only two videos that I have are her relatively "mellow" or at least by her standards. One is of her being backed in the arena, right after she had reared on a right-hand circle (the man in the video is the barn owner). And the other is some pawing and cribbing when she had her 10 minute exercise of standing tied ...

YouTube - Vika on the lead line

(Vika on the lead line)

YouTube - Vika standing tied

(Vika standing tied)

Unfortunately, it is almost impossible to see anything because of the bouncing camera and the lighting ...

Alliekk · 11-02-2009, 10:46 AM

I saw issues immediately. First, the BO is not facing her, therefore not demanding that she move away from his "space". When you face a horse, they must IMMEDIATELY decide if they are too close to their handler. Also, since this mare has an issue with rearing, I would suggest NOT backing her. A horse CANNOT rear when they are moving forward, but by golly, they can and will rear when moving backwards as a punishment. I would take a dressage whip out, at least 4ft in length for safety and if she tries one small act of dominance/aggressiveness, I'd whap her HARD in the bum and make her run a circle around you. THAT got her attention. The BO is making her obey him by not allowing her head near him, but he may also be making her headshy.

The second video, I saw a problem too. She had the lead so long she was able to check things out. She's used to being able to see things. Tighten that lead up to a good foot or even less so she can't easily swing around.

I wouldn't give up on her. As soon as the discipline bulb lights up it'll be easy (given proper techniques) to keep your dominance. Right now she is the herd leader and it is obvious!

cornhuskergirl · 11-02-2009, 11:19 AM

I definitely agree with the backing issue -- personally, I think that he was beside her instead of the more standard position because of "fear" issues related to her striking out and going up. The circle issue is a GREAT suggestion.

In terms of her tying issue, I can definitely shorten her up. Again, she was tied by the barn owner. But clearly it seems too long of a "leash" to give her, given her personality. The issues tying seemed to worsen at around the 7 - 8 minute mark (which I know is completely an issue of baby attention span) ...

I think the hardest thing for me is that she does not really respond to the "carrot" approach of training. It seems like only the "stick" speaks to her. She definitely is not one for cuddles, scratches, pats or the other positive incentives for behavior ...

Alliekk · 11-02-2009, 11:55 AM

A release is sufficient enough. As soon as you relieve the pressure it is an instant reward. She's not a man, you don't win her love through her tummy

You ask, she makes the slightest indication on doing what's asked, and you release/remove pressure, pat 3x on the neck, then ask again. Look up Clinton Anderson and John Lyon's techniques of respect work. She obviously is too headstrong for Parelli (who, IMHO is a joke). Does she rush or walk ahead of you when you're leading her?

Alliekk · 11-02-2009, 11:59 AM

Also, if she gets fidgety at the 7-8 minute mark, make her stand there for an hour. She's impatient. Just because she's a baby doesn't mean she can act like a doofus.

pippy · 11-02-2009, 12:07 PM

I think - that if you have got to your end of tether with her - that those 60 days of training would be a god send. Clearly the BO in the vids isn't working and he is missing vital aspect/signs training oppoturnities. Do some research into trainers - and find one who is not a cuddly carrot stick idiot, but a firm honest horseperson who belives that the horse is meant to work and do as they are told when they are told not 5 mins later after some coo'n.

This removes you, your husband from the situation and you can then go work with the trainer on how best to handle her. Ecen though she is young - she doesn't need treating like a baby - time for her to grow up and realise she isn't the be all and end all.

My mother used to say - don't keep trying to back the float in the same direction if you keep ending up crooked - go foward and find another way to get it backed in. Applies here - clearly there are issues, the BO isn't working out to well - so go a differetn route - get a good trainer. Can I stress GOOD, honestly with some time of true discipline she wouldn't take long to sort out with the right person.

Alliekk · 11-02-2009, 12:10 PM

Well said, Pippy.

cornhuskergirl · 11-02-2009, 12:11 PM

I also have issues with Parelli -- and I definitely do not think that their techniques are the right approach for her.

In terms of your earlier question or comment, she has definitely become more headshy after being backed in the manner that the BO does. She is now even head shy in the cross ties when she is being groomed.

Doofus is exactly the word that I would use to describe her. She is a smart and talented little thing, but she has been allowed to run amuck and has been utterly coddled by my husband (because she is bright and shiny -- boys with toys. Although he should know better since he rode a significant amount when he was younger!).

She has gotten marginally better on the lead line about rushing, after some monster backing sessions that she and I had. But, she still has a tendency to rush. And when I spoke to the trainer less than an hour ago, she said she had some "baby" rearing issues and crow hopping with her when she was taken from her stall to the arena. And that these issues were worse when she was outside later and facing the "scary" puddle.

The two options that my husband has basically been given at the barn where he is at, is 60 days of Parelli with 30 minutes in the morning and 30 minutes in the afternoon. And these are sessions just trainer + horse. After those 60 days, the training will move up to trainer + horse + husband. Or option number 2 seems to be to put a chain on her and be more assertive (which I cannot even really believe that this is on the table as a potential approach??!!??)

11-02-2009, 12:07 PM	#18
pippy Senior Member+ Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: New Zealand Posts: 1,842 Images: 128 Blog Entries: 7	I think - that if you have got to your end of tether with her - that those 60 days of training would be a god send. Clearly the BO in the vids isn't working and he is missing vital aspect/signs training oppoturnities. Do some research into trainers - and find one who is not a cuddly carrot stick idiot, but a firm honest horseperson who belives that the horse is meant to work and do as they are told when they are told not 5 mins later after some coo'n. This removes you, your husband from the situation and you can then go work with the trainer on how best to handle her. Ecen though she is young - she doesn't need treating like a baby - time for her to grow up and realise she isn't the be all and end all. My mother used to say - don't keep trying to back the float in the same direction if you keep ending up crooked - go foward and find another way to get it backed in. Applies here - clearly there are issues, the BO isn't working out to well - so go a differetn route - get a good trainer. Can I stress GOOD, honestly with some time of true discipline she wouldn't take long to sort out with the right person. __________________ Pip + Turbo Living A healthy lifestyle only deprives you of fat and lethargy. Always remember that using your hands BEFORE your driving aids is the same as picking up the telephone before it rings. Why would you pick up the phone? No one is there!

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11-02-2009, 09:43 AM	#11
cornhuskergirl Full Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Nebraska Posts: 337 Images: 15	Agreed doublebarr! I told him last night that I am not touching the filly again (and this time I am sticking to my promise/threat), that I prefer not to land myself in ICU. He told me that the filly just has issues with me (and anyone else who asks her to do anything that her "princessy" self does not want to do) ... Let's see what he does the next time she acts like a bucking bronco ... I love my husband and I really do not want him to get hurt. But the soft voices of wisdom from professionals and myself do not seem to be working, so we will see if a dose of cold hard reality dealing with the "princess" on a daily basis works ...

11-02-2009, 09:48 AM	#12
Alliekk Senior Member+ Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Eugene, Oregon Posts: 1,423 Images: 153	If your trainers can't handle her, then they shouldn't be calling themselves trainers! How old is this horror filly? What breed/age is she?

11-02-2009, 10:46 AM	#14
Alliekk Senior Member+ Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Eugene, Oregon Posts: 1,423 Images: 153	I saw issues immediately. First, the BO is not facing her, therefore not demanding that she move away from his "space". When you face a horse, they must IMMEDIATELY decide if they are too close to their handler. Also, since this mare has an issue with rearing, I would suggest NOT backing her. A horse CANNOT rear when they are moving forward, but by golly, they can and will rear when moving backwards as a punishment. I would take a dressage whip out, at least 4ft in length for safety and if she tries one small act of dominance/aggressiveness, I'd whap her HARD in the bum and make her run a circle around you. THAT got her attention. The BO is making her obey him by not allowing her head near him, but he may also be making her headshy. The second video, I saw a problem too. She had the lead so long she was able to check things out. She's used to being able to see things. Tighten that lead up to a good foot or even less so she can't easily swing around. I wouldn't give up on her. As soon as the discipline bulb lights up it'll be easy (given proper techniques) to keep your dominance. Right now she is the herd leader and it is obvious!

11-02-2009, 11:19 AM	#15
cornhuskergirl Full Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Nebraska Posts: 337 Images: 15	I definitely agree with the backing issue -- personally, I think that he was beside her instead of the more standard position because of "fear" issues related to her striking out and going up. The circle issue is a GREAT suggestion. In terms of her tying issue, I can definitely shorten her up. Again, she was tied by the barn owner. But clearly it seems too long of a "leash" to give her, given her personality. The issues tying seemed to worsen at around the 7 - 8 minute mark (which I know is completely an issue of baby attention span) ... I think the hardest thing for me is that she does not really respond to the "carrot" approach of training. It seems like only the "stick" speaks to her. She definitely is not one for cuddles, scratches, pats or the other positive incentives for behavior ...

11-02-2009, 11:55 AM	#16
Alliekk Senior Member+ Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Eugene, Oregon Posts: 1,423 Images: 153	A release is sufficient enough. As soon as you relieve the pressure it is an instant reward. She's not a man, you don't win her love through her tummy You ask, she makes the slightest indication on doing what's asked, and you release/remove pressure, pat 3x on the neck, then ask again. Look up Clinton Anderson and John Lyon's techniques of respect work. She obviously is too headstrong for Parelli (who, IMHO is a joke). Does she rush or walk ahead of you when you're leading her?

11-02-2009, 11:59 AM	#17
Alliekk Senior Member+ Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Eugene, Oregon Posts: 1,423 Images: 153	Also, if she gets fidgety at the 7-8 minute mark, make her stand there for an hour. She's impatient. Just because she's a baby doesn't mean she can act like a doofus.

11-02-2009, 12:10 PM	#19
Alliekk Senior Member+ Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Eugene, Oregon Posts: 1,423 Images: 153	Well said, Pippy.

11-02-2009, 12:11 PM	#20
cornhuskergirl Full Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Nebraska Posts: 337 Images: 15	I also have issues with Parelli -- and I definitely do not think that their techniques are the right approach for her. In terms of your earlier question or comment, she has definitely become more headshy after being backed in the manner that the BO does. She is now even head shy in the cross ties when she is being groomed. Doofus is exactly the word that I would use to describe her. She is a smart and talented little thing, but she has been allowed to run amuck and has been utterly coddled by my husband (because she is bright and shiny -- boys with toys. Although he should know better since he rode a significant amount when he was younger!). She has gotten marginally better on the lead line about rushing, after some monster backing sessions that she and I had. But, she still has a tendency to rush. And when I spoke to the trainer less than an hour ago, she said she had some "baby" rearing issues and crow hopping with her when she was taken from her stall to the arena. And that these issues were worse when she was outside later and facing the "scary" puddle. The two options that my husband has basically been given at the barn where he is at, is 60 days of Parelli with 30 minutes in the morning and 30 minutes in the afternoon. And these are sessions just trainer + horse. After those 60 days, the training will move up to trainer + horse + husband. Or option number 2 seems to be to put a chain on her and be more assertive (which I cannot even really believe that this is on the table as a potential approach??!!??)