[MuckMuck]

Originally Posted by noreins

This is for you muck:

What works for different people and different horses IS training. I have seen it work on MANY horses including my filly. As previously stated, it only took once or twce and the problem was solved. She doesn't rear anymore and instead stops to think about it when something scares her. So you are telling me that is not training? It worked didn't it? Just because it isn't the kind of training you would use does not mean it is not training. And I would agree that MOST average horse people would not be able to manage using a chain in that manner without causing worse problems but it works for me. My chain has since been retired and just sits around catching dust. My horses respect me enough to know that I am not going to hurt them but that misbehaving WILL. I have never had a "fist" fight with either of my horses. Now obviously if I were training someone else's horse this wouldn't work so wonderfully because I would have no relationship with it. I promise I am not some idiot with a horse, I have years and years of experience, good and bad, and I have learned from it.

If you were to read my post one more time you might see that it is in reference to a person that might not have all the skill to handle a situation and begins the escalation of force,but can not see it to the end.

If you can correct a horse with a chain and a bump or two,then your method was effective in that case,but even using your words,that may not work on the next one.

I am saying that many people head down the force road a little to early and do not have the skill to do so.
A committed rearer is nothing to go play with and a person can get real hurt.
I have solved many of these problems with trying to balance out the problems of the horse from the horses point of view,but as you say it is not for everyone.

[IIIBarsV]

That said, I might be tempted to use a chain over the nose on a horse who needs to be told "GET OFF"- like a horse who is using their strength to try and run you over/chest-slam, etc. Sometimes not even my beloved rope halter can help you there.... although "bag-on-a-stick" might, for shock factor (unless the horse likes bags...)

I would probably never put a chain on anything younger than a 3 yr old. They do not understand anything except "OUCH MY NOSE" and that's why you can end up with a flip-over. They feel the pain (chains hurt, quite a bit!), and they try to get away from it at all costs. This is especially true when it involves their heads and necks- it's just instinct. Some babies are quiet and non-reactive to this type of thing- especially the "nerdy" sort of ones. Most will react with a flight response and won't learn anything, and will often descend into a state of "run", not "think your way out of this".

Older horses are not immune to this either!

That is why, when working with a horse with this problem, we want to use pressure that they can't lean on, but not pressure that is going to cause serious pain to a highly sensitive area of the horse's body.

Noreins really lucked out with her filly in that case, but it is by far the exception, not the rule.