[CrazyHorse]

Nobody here has said anything whatsoever about "beating" a horse for rearing or other dangerous behavior towards humans. A sting with the end of a crop, dressage whip or lunge whip is not "beating" a horse. Horses can hurt each other in the pasture much, much more than we could ever hurt them by stinging those rumps.

I for one will not take the time to analyze my horse to try & figure out why she's displaying dangerous behavior towards me. I will correct her right then and there or get the heck out of her way if she is charging at me with ears flat and teeth bared. If my mare were to EVER display any aggression towards me then I would most definitely know something was off with her, then I would assess the situation as this would be very much out of the norm for her, and I would not "beat" her.

The one and only time my mare ever tried to run over me was right after I got her. She was testing me and I knew it. I corrected the behavior on the spot by backing her hiney up real fast and making her yield her hindquarters, problem solved. The one and only time she kicked out at me in the round pen was when she didn't want to leave her buddies. I stung her rump with the end of a lungewhip and made her work twice as hard. Again, problem solved.

I have been seriously hurt by a horse who had no respect for humans at all, and I plan to never go through that again as long as I can help it.

[noreins]

It is kind of hard for some people to focus on disengaging the horses hind quarters when it's front end is up in the air.

A chain usually works pretty good. Horses don't like pressure. My filly used to rear and actually paw out at the person holding her. I just put the chain on her (under her chin on over her lip) and when she went up I had my boyfriend snatch down on it until she came down. It only took her twice to learn that if she keeps all four feet on the ground she doesn't get yanked. Now if she spooks at something she goes sideways, not up.

[StarfireArizona]

Originally Posted by noreins

It is kind of hard for some people to focus on disengaging the horses hind quarters when it's front end is up in the air.

A chain usually works pretty good. Horses don't like pressure. My filly used to rear and actually paw out at the person holding her. I just put the chain on her (under her chin on over her lip) and when she went up I had my boyfriend snatch down on it until she came down. It only took her twice to learn that if she keeps all four feet on the ground she doesn't get yanked. Now if she spooks at something she goes sideways, not up.

Yes I also used the chain at first. It gave Tino the idea that he was not totally in charge. When the chain was on, he was much better behaved....and it was a miracle drug. But luckily that little reminder worked itself into everyday handling & it wasn't long before we no longer needed it. A chain can be so overused or abused by rough handling, so be careful....

[IIIBarsV]

He is 4 years old, almost fully grown, he sure does not count as a “baby” anymore.

Agreed... this is a dominance display for this guy. He's going "Whatever man".

Here's what I do. Not quite beating, not quite parelli. LOL

1) Horse rears for whatever reason. This is assuming we were moving forward already, or they had been asked to move forward. Maybe they go up because they don't like whatever's in front of them (ie, horse trailer)... maybe they go up because they're highly exciteable and haven't really finished "IIIBarsV's Quiet Calm and Cool Horse Program"... who knows. Maybe they're being aggressive towards the handler.

2) I usually have a rope halter on my horses (except the 100% trustworthy ones, IE, the "real" III Bars V, Turbo, Dream or Sunbun). I don't often carry a crop unless I'm doing groundwork training or I KNOW the horse has behavioral issues. I also prefer to use cotton leadropes.... the big thick ones with the big thick brass clips... with anybody but the "trusted bunch". I wear gloves a lot, also, to protect my beautiful (and all-natural) manicure.

3) Horse goes up... I go with horse, releasing lead to a safe distance, and putting my left shoulder and left foot towards them. I do NOT face them full-on, though I turn my head. Facing a rearing horse is just a BAD idea for a variety of reasons. (a) a challenge. b) you can't get out of the way quick enough and present a wider target. c) you could fall backwards, off-balance. I do nothing while the horse is in the air, but may have a light pressure on the lead so that they don't feel trapped, and I don't end up with a ton of slack.

4) If possible, I will step to the horse's shoulder as they are on their way back down. Do not try to move (except out of the way) until that horse is coming down on a clear path.

5) As soon as those front feet hit solid ground, I somehow manage to switch hands into a "lunging" position and use my left hand to swing the free end of the leadrope really hard and smack their rump. Be VERY, VERY conscious of the footing, and your surroundings BEFORE you do this- because most often you get a big leap forward, and you don't want to leap on bad footing or into people or other horses or solid objects!

5 B) We then go forward. A LOT. Either in-hand or in a lunging situation on a small circle (trot). Smack on the rump if they even think about quitting on me, or kicking at me. Dominant horses always go for the bum to push the other horse off- never the face. Always behind the girth. The message is clear: I'm telling you to MOVE, so you're darn well gonna MOVE when I tell you!

6) If smacking the rump is not an option (ie, you have a horse who WILL kick you back).... then the rope halter comes into effect. You can make a horse headshy, or encourage them to challenge you, or even make them think you want to play rough if they're young and silly enough, if you are smacking them in the face or neck with your own hands. HOWEVER- they do not seem to equate a serious jerk-jerk-jerk-jerk on the rope halter with a threat, challenge, or play signal. I guess it works like a wake up call with a bit of shock factor. And yes, you CAN hurt a horse with a rope halter, and you CAN cause them to go up again if you overdo it. I limit the jerks to 3 or 4, max, then CEASE and let the horse stand there and think about it.

Then we go forward. A lot. (5-10 minutes, sometimes longer, but not past the point where the horse is clearly getting tired). Then we stop, we relax, and go for a walk.

Rinse, repeat. I have a perfect 100% success rate on all the horses who have been brought to me with rearing problems, or have chosen to rear.

But, sometimes, it's unavoidable... with anything younger than a 3 yr old, I am VERY careful about reprimanding (whack on the bum, disengaging hip), because they are young and they do react much differently than a 4 yr old or older horse would due to experience. You also do NOT want to go jerking on a young horse's head with a rope halter- they have a much higher risk for injury.

Somethings I absolutely would not do on any horse:

- Jerk them sideways quickly, in midair or on the ground, by the halter. Major risk of neck damage and falling.

- Pound on the bridle. Nerve damage happens WAY too easily in the mouth and can cause serious problems.

- Whip the horse or hit them in the face. Headshyness, plus risk of injury to an eyeball.

- Use anything metal (like those stupid metal bosals that whatsisname uses) on the horse's face. We're *training*, not *demolishing*.

- Put myself or the horse's health, safety, or mental-health at risk just to "win". If the horse is really going up, and up, and up... we get them back into the pasture ASAP and leave them alone (with food and water and no hobbles, obviously). We'll come back more carefully and work with them little by little another day. If they're in that "PSYCHO" mindset, they aren't going to learn anything anyways- so you might as well start from scratch when you're both in a better state of mind.

- Never hand the horse over to the nearest Joe-Blow-Lucky-Redneck who thinks he's going to be better at correcting your horse's problem than you are. (This includes trailer loading issues!!!)

And that's my spiel for today.

[noreins]

Originally Posted by StarfireArizona

Yes I also used the chain at first. It gave Tino the idea that he was not totally in charge. When the chain was on, he was much better behaved....and it was a miracle drug. But luckily that little reminder worked itself into everyday handling & it wasn't long before we no longer needed it. A chain can be so overused or abused by rough handling, so be careful....

Oh yes very true. But, many thing can be abused, spurs...whips... it just comes down to having good hands and knowing the right amount of pressure to apply

[angie j]

Originally Posted by IIIBarsV

- Use anything metal (like those stupid metal bosals that whatsisname uses) on the horse's face. We're *training*, not *demolishing*.

OMG!!! I saw one of those metal bosals on a huge horse recently at a barn when I went to look at a pony! I had to work hard to keep my jaw from dropping to the ground. I saw lots of evidence of 'quick fix' training on their horses .. I'd never seen one before... and hope I never do again.

[calypsoscarnivl]

You have to be careful with using a chain b/c some horses get really p*ssed off about it and will go HIGHER

I agree with Crazy horse...A quick smack in the rear and getting those feet moving forward is not abuse.

As I said before, just be careful. IMO rearing is the worst vice a horse can have and I will not tolerate it. Other people have a higher tolerance for it than I do, but I think it is the most dangerous thing a horse can do. Also, if he's doing on the ground, whose to say he won't start it under saddle? He needs to go back to kindergarten and re-learn some respect.

[noreins]

You have a point there, but mine was a young filly and was rearing AND pawing out at the handler so the chain helped, I can see where it would cause worse problems though.

[IIIBarsV]

I much prefer my rope halter... chains under chin or over nose can cause some really unwanted side-effects... such as the horse "locking" on the chain (or the chain locking on the horse) and causing a flip-over. The rope halter cannot "lock up" on a horse. When you release it, it actually releases.

[noreins]

I understand that too and when she settles down I loosen the chain, which seems to encourage the settling down because she knows I will make it stop pinching her. But I don't own a rope halter that would fit her very well just yet and the chain worked with out damage. Different people are different. Some people can use a chain effectively and some can't