[Dawn]

I just looked at it and the StaySTRONG looks more like a vit/min pellet to me. (Which is basically what Sue just said.) It would be interesting to see how much is supposed to be fed a day (it does not detail on the website).

The GroStrong and Patriot 36% supplement look more like ration balancers (simply because of their higher protein level). But it would be nice to know if that high protein is supported with high amino acids as well. Otherwise it does you no good.

[StormChaser]

Originally Posted by Sue B

LOL...I don't think this thread could be hi.ja.cked! It's hear for everyone to ask questions....and hopefully get feedback.

My only concern with the Stay Strong (and possibly others in that product line) is that they are not showing added amino acids and it has only a moderate protein level. While this would be a good complement to an alfalfa diet, you would probably be missing out with the horse on grass hay.

However, there are other sources of amino acids that you can complement this product with...BOSS and rice bran would provide the most amino acids plus additional beneficial nutrients such as fat. It is possible to add these items withoug weight gain if that is a concern.

So, in the long run...I'm thinking that you would proably end up paying the same amount per feeding because you would need to supplement the ADM product.

I'm currently feeding all my horses BOSS right now anyway. How much do you think they would need to make up for the Amino acids. They are currently getting about 1 1/2 to 2 cups each.

Thanks for your help!

[Sue B]

Originally Posted by StormChaser

I'm currently feeding all my horses BOSS right now anyway. How much do you think they would need to make up for the Amino acids. They are currently getting about 1 1/2 to 2 cups each.

Thanks for your help!

That sould be enough for most horses. I guess the proof would be in trying...make the change and see if you notice a difference after a month.

And don't forget to report back so we can see how things went.

Glad I could be of help.

[StormChaser]

Originally Posted by Dawn

I just looked at it and the StaySTRONG looks more like a vit/min pellet to me. (Which is basically what Sue just said.) It would be interesting to see how much is supposed to be fed a day (it does not detail on the website).

The GroStrong and Patriot 36% supplement look more like ration balancers (simply because of their higher protein level). But it would be nice to know if that high protein is supported with high amino acids as well. Otherwise it does you no good.

Thanks Dawn! I will go and read the what the package says before I change. It's nice only feeding 2-2 1/2 lbs of BTW. That could be the difference in why it's so much cheaper. Maybe...just maybe...there might be someone there that knows something about these products. It's pretty high hopes for TSC but you never know...at least the ones around here. lol!

[StormChaser]

Originally Posted by Dawn

I just looked at it and the StaySTRONG looks more like a vit/min pellet to me. (Which is basically what Sue just said.) It would be interesting to see how much is supposed to be fed a day (it does not detail on the website).

The GroStrong and Patriot 36% supplement look more like ration balancers (simply because of their higher protein level). But it would be nice to know if that high protein is supported with high amino acids as well. Otherwise it does you no good.

I just found this on the website!

INSTRUCTIONS FOR FEEDING
Feed StaySTRONG Metabolic Mineral Pellets at the rate of 0.10 to 0.13% of body weight per horse daily (1.0 to 1.3 lb per 1000 lb horse) along with 2.0 to 3.5% of body weight of good quality hay (20 to 35 lb for a 1000 lb horse) or pasture equivalent. Provide clean, fresh water at all times.

Feeding options include:

1. Feed alone with good-quality forage to overweight, starch-sensitive, and ‘easy keeper’ horses.
2. Feed in combination with NATURAL GLO®* or MOORGLO® and good-quality forage to horses doing light to moderate work.
3. Top-dress on FORAGE FIRST Specialized Energy Blends such as SENIORGLO® and POWERGLO® or Fortified Feeds such as GROSTRONG Ultra-Fiber™ and Patriot® Performance Horse Feeds for additional metabolic (vitamin/mineral, electrolyte, and digestive) support for maximum performance of any horse.

WARNINGS:

This feed contains copper. Do not feed to sheep or other copper sensitive species.

Follow label directions. Feeding added selenium at levels in excess of 0.3 ppm in the total diet is prohibited.

[HawaiianPaint]

So would I be correct in thinking that the difference between the TC12 and TC30 are that the 30 would be better for like a performance horse? Or why would someone choose one over the other?

[ryu2832]

Originally Posted by HawaiianPaint

So would I be correct in thinking that the difference between the TC12 and TC30 are that the 30 would be better for like a performance horse? Or why would someone choose one over the other?

You would use TC12 if you were feeding forage high in legumes (alfalfa or clover). The legumes have a higher protein level than grasses, and the horses do not need as much supplemental protein.

You would use TC30 if you were feeding primarily grass forage (pasture/hay).

So TC12 is 12% protein, TC30 is 30% protein.

[Dawn]

Yep, that's it. Also the individual nutrient profile of each is aimed toward what would compliment a grass or legume diet. Most companies have 2 ration balancers, one for grass and one for legume. I believe the consider a 'legume' based diet to be at least 1/2 of the total grass/hay intake for the day. So you're looking at about 15 lbs of legumes minimum for it to be considered the 'base'.

[Madamoiselle]

Alright, here it goes.

I have a TBxappy that could be considered a harder keeper. He is usually in hard work and hopefully will be headed up to 3'+ hunter/jumper a bit further into his training. He has an infection in the hoof which is being addressed as soon as my Clean Trax is delivered-I believe it's from being constantly bathed-but I'm concerned that his immune system is lacking. He also is very sensitive to allergies. Last fall he had the worst case of hives I've ever seen, they formed huge welts EVERYWHERE-I could not ride for an entire MONTH. He was also on oats because he was relatively new to me and we kept him on the feed the last owner came with.



So, basically I understand that to keep him on a ration balancer I need to add other sources of fat, protein, etc., but I need some help figuring out what.

Currently he is on 5lbs a day of 12% pellets 8 flakes of grass/alfalfa mix, and free choice grass. In the winter he gets free choice hay instead of grass.

So here was my vaguely educated and unprofessional idea;

Ration balancer(still looking at them all, probably the most complete one)
Forage based cubes or pellets(I suppose whatever is more palatable and whatever Mr. Fussy decides he likes.)
Flax
BOSS for added calories?
What about Rice bran?
Kelp or Source if no kelp is in RB.

[Dawn]

Originally Posted by Madamoiselle

So, basically I understand that to keep him on a ration balancer I need to add other sources of fat, protein, etc., but I need some help figuring out what.

Currently he is on 5lbs a day of 12% pellets 8 flakes of grass/alfalfa mix, and free choice grass. In the winter he gets free choice hay instead of grass.

So here was my vaguely educated and unprofessional idea;

Ration balancer(still looking at them all, probably the most complete one)
Forage based cubes or pellets(I suppose whatever is more palatable and whatever Mr. Fussy decides he likes.)
Flax
BOSS for added calories?
What about Rice bran?
Kelp or Source if no kelp is in RB.

Do you know what the percentages of grass and alfalfa are in your hay? That will be a factor in deciding which ration balancer to go with (a legume or grass based one).

With as much hay as he's getting in combination with pasture (assuming your hay flakes are of 'average' weight (3-4 lbs), I doubt that forage cubes or pellets will really be the way to go. I would stick with looking at fat sources.

So that brings us to BOSS or Rice bran. The big + of BOSS is the high amino acids. But this is already covered with the balancer. So it is still a good source of fiber, protein, and fat. But Rice bran would be what I would go with in this situation. Particularly with a hard working horse, the gamma orazynol (sp?) will be a great addition to help build and repair those muscles. As well as being a great source of fat.

Flax is always a good addition as is Kelp (such as Source).

Sounds like you've pretty much got it! Now to find out what balancers you have available to you.

The hoof infection is very unlikely to be caused by bathing (excessive wetness). Though truely excessive wetness can breakdown the resistance of the hoof, it would already have to be on the verge of breaking that point to begin with.