Question about a Shanked Bit and using a training Fork at the same time

Baileyapha · 10-26-2009, 11:11 PM

Okay, so there is this girl at my barn who is using everything mechanical on her horse ei: (Training forks, draw reins, shanked bits, tie downs, and so on) to try and get her horses head down and in the bridle. When she should be using her legs and body to get the results she is looking for until the horse is ready to move on to the bridle.

Now I am not at all against training aids, in fact they are a big part of what makes a horse move on, and I use them myself. But I am against stupid people using them improperly to try and get results they have no idea how to get to. In turn making the horse suffer for there short falls and lack of knowledge.

My question is, is it okay to use a shanked bit and a training fork together at the same time?

I have never done this and have never seen anyone do it and she was doing with her horse the other day. It is not a small shank by any means. I would just like to know as I was always taught to ride in a snaffle with training aids if needed, then move your horse into the shanked bit when its ready. Then if it needs refreshers, you move back into the snaffle and so on.

She wants the horse to show both English and western. The horse is 5, and the gal balances on the reins to hold herself in the saddle.

What are your thoughts, so I may kindly pass them along. Thanks!

Gutter_Doll · 10-27-2009, 12:37 AM

A training fork, if its the piece of equipment I'm thinking of, pulls DOWN on the reins when you pull back or up. This is not how a shanked bit, especially a ported mouth, works.
Sounds like a wonderful way for her to flip her horse over backwards.

(I'd just like to follow up with a horse who is broke in the face, and has an 'educated' mouth, something like draw reins can be an excellent tool for that educated, broke animal who just needs a reminder, shank or not, since a bump is not a pull, and a downwards pull on a shank bit is not appropriate. Heck. A hard pull on a shank isn't.)

JBandRio · 10-27-2009, 05:44 AM

Absolutely not - no training fork/running martingale with a leverage bit

GotaDunQH · 10-27-2009, 05:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baileyapha

My question is, is it okay to use a shanked bit and a training fork together at the same time?

I've done it many times....but it's NOT ok if you don't know what you are doing, why you are doing it, or to force a head set. And it sounds like this is what this person is doing.

Jennifer

rageandglory · 10-27-2009, 06:08 AM

no, i would not. won't allow it with my clients/horses, either. really, a shank with a fork.... sad, frankly. even in a good hand, what's the point that can't be made any other way? sorry but if that is a method of choice in a good hand, there is something amiss with the knowledge (not the dexterity) in that hand. not doubting the touch, just the method. in a bad hand? no words.

i prefer and advocate a simpler language to accomplish my goals.

spinandslide · 10-27-2009, 07:58 AM

I never would..training forks go with snaffles at my place.

bnttyra · 10-27-2009, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GotaDunQH

I've done it many times....but it's NOT ok if you don't know what you are doing, why you are doing it, or to force a head set. And it sounds like this is what this person is doing.

Jennifer

My trainer has done it, but it was for a short period of time on my young horse. She just transistioned to a shanked bit and the training fork was used just to remind her to keep her head down and then it came off. We use alot of training tools such as tie downs and draw reins in warmup and then will take them off about half way through. As it was explained to me, it helps to remind the horse where its head should be and the rest is on the rider to get that head where it should be with their seat and legs. I have a video on here of DeDe in a tie down but you can see that she is completely off of it and it doesn't need to be on at all. My trainer was using it for her transistions as she would sometimes pop her head up on the downward transistions.

Baileyapha · 10-28-2009, 02:38 AM

Thanks guys for the input! It's one of those things when she is riding and it's really painful to watch but you just can't look away, and you want to start screaming things to help her help the horse because it's not the horses fault the rider is a little on the slow side in the brain. If you catch my drift.

Thanks again for the help!

medicinehat · 10-28-2009, 02:59 PM

My feeling is that the horse should know to keep its head down BEFORE moving into a shanked bit...the horse sounds like a saint

PinkHorse · 10-28-2009, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by medicinehat

My feeling is that the horse should know to keep its head down BEFORE moving into a shanked bit...the horse sounds like a saint

I agree with this 100%. If she's using the training fork to keep the horse's head down, she should seriously consider dropping back down to a snaffle for training.

10-26-2009, 11:11 PM	#1
Baileyapha Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 7	Question about a Shanked Bit and using a training Fork at the same time Okay, so there is this girl at my barn who is using everything mechanical on her horse ei: (Training forks, draw reins, shanked bits, tie downs, and so on) to try and get her horses head down and in the bridle. When she should be using her legs and body to get the results she is looking for until the horse is ready to move on to the bridle. Now I am not at all against training aids, in fact they are a big part of what makes a horse move on, and I use them myself. But I am against stupid people using them improperly to try and get results they have no idea how to get to. In turn making the horse suffer for there short falls and lack of knowledge. My question is, is it okay to use a shanked bit and a training fork together at the same time? I have never done this and have never seen anyone do it and she was doing with her horse the other day. It is not a small shank by any means. I would just like to know as I was always taught to ride in a snaffle with training aids if needed, then move your horse into the shanked bit when its ready. Then if it needs refreshers, you move back into the snaffle and so on. She wants the horse to show both English and western. The horse is 5, and the gal balances on the reins to hold herself in the saddle. What are your thoughts, so I may kindly pass them along. Thanks!

10-27-2009, 12:37 AM	#2
Gutter_Doll Senior Member+ Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Central West, Australia. Posts: 1,431 Images: 36	A training fork, if its the piece of equipment I'm thinking of, pulls DOWN on the reins when you pull back or up. This is not how a shanked bit, especially a ported mouth, works. Sounds like a wonderful way for her to flip her horse over backwards. (I'd just like to follow up with a horse who is broke in the face, and has an 'educated' mouth, something like draw reins can be an excellent tool for that educated, broke animal who just needs a reminder, shank or not, since a bump is not a pull, and a downwards pull on a shank bit is not appropriate. Heck. A hard pull on a shank isn't.) __________________ photography new site. "Orana Quest" - tricks (bow, lay down, kneel, smile, sit, count, pick up a saddle pad) and in reining training.

10-27-2009, 05:44 AM	#3
JBandRio Senior Member+ Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: NC Posts: 32,000 Images: 196 Blog Entries: 12	Absolutely not - no training fork/running martingale with a leverage bit __________________ - JB Acres, owned and operated by Dynamite animals. - It's a wonder horses as a whole don't just kill us all and be done with their misery. - Keep your voice soothing and low - even when things get western (buck1173)

10-27-2009, 07:58 AM	#6
spinandslide Senior Member+ Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: northwest Texas Posts: 1,698 Images: 22 Blog Entries: 2	I never would..training forks go with snaffles at my place. __________________ So I ask you, will you be a constitutional watchdog. The time has come to bark and to bark loudly. -Glenn Beck

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10-27-2009, 06:08 AM	#5
rageandglory Senior Member+ Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 2,428	no, i would not. won't allow it with my clients/horses, either. really, a shank with a fork.... sad, frankly. even in a good hand, what's the point that can't be made any other way? sorry but if that is a method of choice in a good hand, there is something amiss with the knowledge (not the dexterity) in that hand. not doubting the touch, just the method. in a bad hand? no words. i prefer and advocate a simpler language to accomplish my goals.

10-28-2009, 02:38 AM	#8
Baileyapha Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 7	Thanks guys for the input! It's one of those things when she is riding and it's really painful to watch but you just can't look away, and you want to start screaming things to help her help the horse because it's not the horses fault the rider is a little on the slow side in the brain. If you catch my drift. Thanks again for the help!

10-28-2009, 02:59 PM	#9
medicinehat Full Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: MA Posts: 151 Images: 33	My feeling is that the horse should know to keep its head down BEFORE moving into a shanked bit...the horse sounds like a saint